Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
First off, to
those who even bothered to read a [REQ] thread, I thank you. To
anyone who is willing to make the minor modifications below, I love
you (in a good way).
Here’s what the mod should do:
1) Lower the max stat multiplier at level up (which is
default at x5) to x1.
2) Add 1 to each stat when 3 levels in
the corresponding skill(s) are gained.
3) Subtract 1 to each
stat if any of those levels are lost in the corresponding skill(s).
(To prevent jail or other skill loss from raising stats further.)
That’s it.
Now, Balor already made a very
similar mod (linked here: http://www.thelys.org/mods.php?a=Balor#Levelling),
but with the following differences:
1) Players would forget
skills overtime. (A fine idea, but since levels don’t lower with
lost skills, it’s a huge problem for leveled lists, etc.)
2) The stat multiplier is capped at x2, not x1.
Basically, Balor’s mod already has all of the necessary code
(I ran through it in notepad of all things). I just need a clean,
modified version. However, I know that this is truly a 5 to 15
minute job that will take me the entire weekend, with much swearing
interspersed since I have yet to use the TESCS. Also, I’m not near
as familiar with how the global scripts will affect the rest of the
land or conflict with other plug-ins.
Thus, anyone up for a
mini-challenge?
And thanks again...
-------------------- Currently working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Edited by Lady Eternity (07/29/04 10:06
PM)
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
Just a quick
question to those who are looking at this thread but aren't willing
to/have not the ability to mod (which is fine).
Am I making
this mod modification simpler then it is? Would it cause hours of
frustration for even a jaded modder because of the global changes in
the scripts? Or is it actual as simple as I believe it
is?
Thanks. I really just need some kind of virtual
measurement for this, because I have no experience to go on.
-------------------- Currently working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
Mode_Locrian |
Diviner |
|
|
Reged: 10/07/02 |
Posts: 2084 |
Loc: Bjornholm, Rykith Lowlands Region
| |
|
I always find
modifying someone else's code to be a lot harder than you might
think... you have to guess at what their variables mean until you
can track them down in the code and figure out what they
do.
This might be a slightly annoying job to take on, though,
as you say, it might not be that hard -- just aggravating.
-------------------- My Website Bards of Vvardenfell Thread (New Info 8/15/04)
Post Extras: |
Miral007 |
Diviner |
|
|
Reged: 10/28/03 |
Posts: 2639 |
Loc: Hot as Hell Phoenix
| |
|
hmm, this
should work.
The mod you linked to, without forgetting
skills, with max stat multiplier set to 1.
http://miral.pctech3.net/Levelling.esp
-------------------- If I have told you I will make
something and you haven't heard from me since, send me a PM. I'm
quite forgetful. Reality is mankind's greatest illusion.
-- (\/) ][ |R /-\ |_
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
Quote:
hmm, this should work.
The mod you linked to, without
forgetting skills, with max stat multiplier set to 1.
http://miral.pctech3.net/Levelling.esp
I just tested the mod and it
works perfectly! (Though, I didn't get to do a full test of what
happens 90 days later because I hadn't done any modifications on the
attack frequency of the dark brotherhood, but I'll get to that later
this weekend.) Nonetheless...
I probably shouldn’t bore you
with the exact details of how much you just helped me, but you’re
going to get them anyway. Especially because you – quite literally –
reawakened my love for Morrowind and I couldn’t be
happier!!!
Here’s why:
I’m naturally a rather
compulsive RPG player with a tendency to make the best (though not
technically the most powerful) character I can. In Morrowind, I
quickly learned as I started to play that the only why for me to
take full advantage of the character skills was to learn them in 10
level blocks. That is, 10 levels for each attribute I wanted to
raise by 5. Thus, I would force myself not to use skills appropriate
to situations or stand there running into a wall for upwards of an
hour (thank you auto run). Obviously, this isn’t a very good way to
play a game and I put Morrowind away.
Several months later,
as the new GIANTS mod and others came into existence; I decided it
was once more time to try again. This time, however, I decided to
approach the game from a completely different perspective. I looked
and looked for the mod that you just created from Balor’s code, but
found nothing suitable and decided that it would be best to just
play and not worry about the skills and level bonuses. The problem?
I was at level four and had gained no less then 75 skill levels, but
not a single level up. (In part due to my skill selections on the
characters I attempted in this second time around.) In essence, I
was being penalized by the system for playing the game as if it was
a world unto itself.
Your changes fixed all that! Now I’m no
longer penalized for playing each character as if they were real.
And with the addition of some great lighting mods, GIANTS, the
recently released Morrowind Comes Alive 2.2, etc., I’ll finally be
able to play Morrowind as I always wanted to play it. Again, I know
it was such a small request for a mod, but I can’t thank you
enough.
Would you mind if I made a copy on my server in a new
zip with a new read me detailing your changes and giving credit to
you and the original author? If so, this will also make it’s way
into the Ultimate Lists below as a game play option for different
styles of players. (Note that the link is seriously going to be
turned into a website over the next two weeks and all of the mods
I’m currently testing for Bloodmoon and Tribunal will be in it.) Oh,
and I'll also fire off an e-mail to Balor if you get back to me on
this.
Thank you once more!!! (I know, enough already.) But
you get a trophy, too!
Miral007's Trophy:
-------------------- Currently working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
*laughing*
And to think. I just visited the
homepage on that website and it's the list I had bookmarked to find
updated versions for the compatiable mod list I'm
creating!
Ok, I'm done praising now. But it doesn't mean any
less to me.
Now I'm off to work on getting my frame rate
up... On a laptop no less. ^^
-------------------- Currently working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
Miral007 |
Diviner |
|
|
Reged: 10/28/03 |
Posts: 2639 |
Loc: Hot as Hell Phoenix
| |
|
No problem, it
was a pretty simple job. Had to read thru the scripts to understand
what he was doing, but in the end it was pretty easy because he had
separate scripts for the decrease, which made it easier to
disable.
Note: You may want to run it thru TESTool, I forgot
to clean the GMSTs.
-------------------- If I have told
you I will make something and you haven't heard from me since, send
me a PM. I'm quite forgetful. Reality is mankind's greatest
illusion. -- (\/) ][ |R /-\ |_
Post Extras: |
Miral007 |
Diviner |
|
|
Reged: 10/28/03 |
Posts: 2639 |
Loc: Hot as Hell Phoenix
| |
|
Quote:
*laughing*
And to think. I just visited the homepage on
that website and it's the list I had bookmarked to find updated
versions for the compatiable mod list I'm creating!
Ok, I'm
done praising now. But it doesn't mean any less to me.
Now
I'm off to work on getting my frame rate up... On a laptop no
less. ^^
My list kinda sucks as of
now... you should bookmark Telesphoros' own thread, it has a LOT
more. Mine will probably be removed soon to give way to an actual
website...
-------------------- If I have told you I will
make something and you haven't heard from me since, send me a PM.
I'm quite forgetful. Reality is mankind's greatest
illusion. -- (\/) ][ |R /-\ |_
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
Quote:
Note: You may want to run it thru TESTool, I forgot to clean
the GMSTs.
Shall do so. I'm sure I'll be
running that on quite a few mods by the end of this weekend.
-------------------- Currently working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
Miral007 |
Diviner |
|
|
Reged: 10/28/03 |
Posts: 2639 |
Loc: Hot as Hell Phoenix
| |
|
Just make sure
it doesn't delete the setting related to 10 skillup stat increases
-------------------- If I have told you I will make
something and you haven't heard from me since, send me a PM. I'm
quite forgetful. Reality is mankind's greatest illusion.
-- (\/) ][ |R /-\ |_
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
Right...
Here's what I got as a log from cleaning a copy of the
mod:
File:
Levelling.esp ============================== deleted GMST
sTeleportDisabled deleted GMST sLevitateDisabled deleted GMST
sWerewolfRefusal deleted GMST sWerewolfPopup deleted GMST
sWerewolfRestMessage deleted GMST
sWerewolfAlarmMessage deleted GMST sMaxSale deleted GMST
sDeleteNote deleted GMST sEditNote deleted GMST
sProfitValue deleted GMST sCompanionShare deleted GMST
sCompanionWarningMessage deleted GMST
sCompanionWarningButtonOne deleted GMST
sCompanionWarningButtonTwo deleted GMST iLevelupTotal deleted
GMST fLevelMod deleted GMST fWereWolfRunMult deleted GMST
fWereWolfSilverWeaponDamageMult deleted GMST
iWereWolfBounty deleted GMST fWereWolfStrength deleted GMST
fWereWolfAgility deleted GMST fWereWolfEndurance deleted GMST
fWereWolfSpeed deleted GMST fWereWolfHandtoHand deleted GMST
fWereWolfUnarmored deleted GMST iWereWolfLevelToAttack deleted
GMST iWereWolfFightMod deleted GMST iWereWolfFleeMod deleted
GMST fWereWolfAthletics deleted GMST
fWereWolfAcrobatics deleted GMST fWereWolfHealth deleted GMST
fWereWolfFatigue deleted GMST fWereWolfMagicka deleted GMST
fWereWolfIntellegence deleted GMST fWereWolfWillPower deleted
GMST fWereWolfPersonality deleted GMST fWereWolfLuck deleted
GMST fWereWolfBlock deleted GMST fWereWolfArmorer deleted GMST
fWereWolfMediumArmor deleted GMST fWereWolfHeavyArmor deleted
GMST fWereWolfBluntWeapon deleted GMST
fWereWolfLongBlade deleted GMST fWereWolfAxe deleted GMST
fWereWolfSpear deleted GMST fWereWolfDestruction deleted GMST
fWereWolfAlteration deleted GMST fWereWolfIllusion deleted
GMST fWereWolfConjuration deleted GMST
fWereWolfMysticism deleted GMST fWereWolfRestoration deleted
GMST fWereWolfEnchant deleted GMST fWereWolfAlchemy deleted
GMST fWereWolfSecurity deleted GMST fWereWolfSneak deleted
GMST fWereWolfLightArmor deleted GMST
fWereWolfShortBlade deleted GMST fWereWolfMarksman deleted
GMST fWereWolfMerchantile deleted GMST
fWereWolfSpeechcraft deleted GMST
fCombatDistanceWerewolfMod deleted GMST fFleeDistance deleted
GMST sEffectSummonFabricant deleted GMST
sEffectSummonCreature01 deleted GMST
sEffectSummonCreature02 deleted GMST
sEffectSummonCreature03 deleted GMST
sEffectSummonCreature04 deleted GMST
sEffectSummonCreature05 deleted GMST sMagicFabricantID deleted
GMST sMagicCreature01ID deleted GMST
sMagicCreature02ID deleted GMST sMagicCreature03ID deleted
GMST sMagicCreature04ID deleted GMST
sMagicCreature05ID deleted GLOB
abelmawiaCounter ============================== Saved: Clean
Levelling.esp
I don't see anything of note that might have
been bad other then iLevelupTotal or fLevelMod. But they're probably
duplicate entries...
-------------------- Currently
working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
Miral007 |
Diviner |
|
|
Reged: 10/28/03 |
Posts: 2639 |
Loc: Hot as Hell Phoenix
| |
|
btw this
weekend I might try reworking it so that it has forgetting stats
with level decreases... But then I might not (I have a really short
attention span)
-------------------- If I have told you I
will make something and you haven't heard from me since, send me a
PM. I'm quite forgetful. Reality is mankind's greatest
illusion. -- (\/) ][ |R /-\ |_
Post Extras: |
Miral007 |
Diviner |
|
|
Reged: 10/28/03 |
Posts: 2639 |
Loc: Hot as Hell Phoenix
| |
|
Quote:
I don't see anything of note that might have been bad other
then iLevelupTotal or fLevelMod. But they're probably duplicate
entries...
I didn't touch those, they
were edited in the version I downloaded... I didn't see fLevelMod,
but iLevelupTotal was set as edited yet it was the default value of
10... so I know thats safe.
-------------------- If I
have told you I will make something and you haven't heard from me
since, send me a PM. I'm quite forgetful. Reality is
mankind's greatest illusion. -- (\/) ][ |R /-\
|_
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
Quote:
btw this weekend I might try reworking it so that it has
forgetting stats with level decreases... But then I might not (I
have a really short attention span)
Go for it if you'd like... But
note, I have mixed feelings on how useful this plug-in would be to
me. So, you'd probably be doing it for yourself or anyone else who's
been part of the 100+ views. (Anyone want to break the vow of
silence and show support/indifference?)
Should you attempt
it, however, good luck!
-------------------- Currently
working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
Miral007 |
Diviner |
|
|
Reged: 10/28/03 |
Posts: 2639 |
Loc: Hot as Hell Phoenix
| |
|
Wouldn't be
for me, no sir/ma'am (which is it anyways? heh)... I don't use mods
that make my character get worse if I'm just exploring, especially
since there are so few monsters in the wild (and I don't care for
GIANTS)
So unless anyone else wants this, I probably won't
make it. (though I might just for personal practice)
-------------------- If I have told you I will make
something and you haven't heard from me since, send me a PM. I'm
quite forgetful. Reality is mankind's greatest illusion.
-- (\/) ][ |R /-\ |_
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
Quote:
Wouldn't be for me, no sir/ma'am (which is it anyways?
heh)...
Sir. Sorry if that
disappoints. ^^ Though, I'm always glad when one takes the time to
question vs. assuming male.
Quote:
(and I don't care for GIANTS)
Yeah. I hear that a lot. It's
a big love/hate mod where people either love the amount of
additional monsters or hate the quality of the models. I suppose I
use it mainly because of the variety and there really isn't anything
better that I've found.
Wilderness Mod is also fun for
variety, but... Wow. That mod brings my laptop to it's knees and
then proceeds to slit any vital arteries. I think my last test with
it on (almost a year ago) was at 1... maybe 2 fps. *_*
-------------------- Currently working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
|
|
I just d'l'ed
it and am about to try it. at first it was a little bit of a
challenge tracking my attribute/leveling stuff and then it was even
a little fun, making sure i got beat up enough or something to get
those 5x endurance. but now it's a pain, especially as i've once
again started over from scratch to try and build an
unarmored-favoring character.
two things, though, that i
can't tell from the thread -- one is, do you still level up at 10
minor/major levels, even if no point-multiplier kicks in? i don't
want to be automatically leveld up, w/changes in creatures, loot,
etc., before i'm ready, as my stealthy, elf-y characters start off a
little fragile.
two is, what about Luck? if your increases
come only when 3 governed skills are raised then you have no way
whatsoever to change luck, and i don't like that.
okay, two
more things -- since i'm not sure i understand yet all that this
does, i don't know how to figure out the maximum possible number of
attribute-increase-"points" i can accumulate in the game. i don't
need it to add up to exactly what's possible under the old system,
but if there's a vast discrepancy, i may not want to use the new
system.
-- and i understand this isn't being done as a
formally released mod so i can live with miral goin' 'hell witch'oo,
library boy, i don't feel like writing no stinking readme!', i do
appreciate any efforts toward making the leveling/stat-increasing
more conducive to just playing the game and not making little charts
that i cross off to track how many times i've raised an endurance
skill since i last leveled up. at the same time, i'm probably not
quite the 'hardcore purist' you guys might be. now and again i even
use the console...though most recently it was just to give my altmer
pc a haircut!
really, i swear -- loved those braids in the
front but that perfectly-horizontal-across-the-back just made it
look too much like a wig. anyway, i don't know that i'd want to use
a mod that includes loss-of-skills attribute penalties. and, btw,
what if i just got hit w/a 10-lvl 'drain/dmg blunt weapon skill'
spell attack? would i ALSO lose 3 points of strength? that would be
a little overpowering, no?
y'know, there really was a fourth
thing and now i've completely forgotten what it was. i'm sure i'll
remember the minute i go offline again!
-------------------- ewww....how'd the bandersnatch get
all frumious?
Post Extras: |
|
|
i just can't
bring myself to 'issue trophies' because like emoticons it all looks
to me like notes passed by 8thgrade girls with hearts and stars and
circles dotting their i's and exclamations.
however -- miral,
this is, so far (i didn't go to jail or anything to decrease skills,
even temporarily), significantly better than i had hoped. i started
a new game and ran around in god mode so i could up skills and see
what happened. it had no problem (and no stuttering or slowing down
or anything) tracking when a governing attribute changed -- i cast
cnjr, illusion, and will-based spells. i made sure conjure and
illusion each went up twice, then destroyed, altered (and hthanded a
few poor crabs to death) until i leveled up. i had three points to
assign to three diff. attributes. i put one to personality but not
to intelligence, just to see if it confused the mod. then i cast
more spells, and it had no problem 'remembering' that intelligence
and personality skills had each gone up twice in the previous
level.
i say that you actually improved luck and i mean it --
because in the stock system you have only one opportunity to improve
luck by more than one point at a time, i always made luck one of my
initial 10-point attributes, regardless of whether i thought it was
the most appropriate choice for my character. similarly, though not
quite as extreme, with endurance for my fragile breton and bosmer
characters.
now, because i know i will always have a point to
put to luck each level (or each level that i want to) without
worrying about spending them so carefully, or feeling like, well,
this level i happened to go up 10 personality-ranks so i better put
those 5x into personality and forget about luck -- well, now i don't
have to think or play like that. i haven't done the arithmetic yet
to figure out how many eventual points my character will have to
distribute, and now i may not even bother. this kicks ass. i can now
play the damn game without ever stopping to try and remember how and
when i last used a particular skill. this so kicks ass! small as
this esp is, it quite possibly gets my vote for best m'wind mod i've
tried yet.
-------------------- ewww....how'd the
bandersnatch get all frumious?
Post
Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
Glad you like
it. Of course, full credit to Miral for the code changes. I'll be
releasing a second copy somewhere on my webspace in due
time.
Speaking of which... There may or may not be one tiny
problem with the mod which I should note to any new people reading
this revived thread. I don't know what happens when your stats hit
100 and you gain more skill levels. That is all. ^^
For those
who want a quick recap of what this thing does:
Quote:
If you gain any 3 skill levels tied to the same attribute that
attribute goes up (permanently) by one.
If you gain 10
major/minor skill levels, you get the option to level up with 3
coins (same as original), but only 1x (as opposed to up to 5x) for
any skill.
Result: You no longer have to plan your skills.
Yeeha!
Any comments Miral?
-------------------- Currently working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
|
|
EDIT -- 2 more
things -- i had several skills governed by new attributes (e.g.,
spear as an agility rather than an endurance) and i'm going to try
and locate them in the scripts to make the tweaks i've grown
accustomed to, hopefully won't cause any problems.
the
second, from looking at the asterisked bal_<etc.> scripts i
gather that the loss-of-skills thing is governed by one script
entirely. so i guess i'll try entirely deleting that script and
hoping it doesn't cause problems when script "A" says 'start script
"B" now!' and script "B" no longer exists. damn this game...it's
forcing me to learn more *about* these confounded computing machines
than i ever wanted to know, but not enough to actually be able to
*do* much of anything new with them.
-------------------- ewww....how'd the bandersnatch get
all frumious?
Edited by
alexandrian_librarian (07/26/04 10:15 PM)
Post Extras: |
|
|
yet another
positive result/selling point on this -- i realized, while
cheerfully punching away at scribs near seyda neen, that this thing
also improves powerleveling for those who like to do it (this
includes me, when i'm in the really early levels), since w/this,
every skill increase counts toward an attribute increase, while
old-school powerleveling devalues all skill increases past the
tenth.
and one error in the .esp -- the relevant bal_etc.
script categorizes acrobatics as an agility skill rather than
strength. (AddAgi not AddStr, I think, I'm not on my home machine
right now so I can't check)
-------------------- ewww....how'd the bandersnatch get
all frumious?
Post Extras: |
Miral007 |
Diviner |
|
|
Reged: 10/28/03 |
Posts: 2639 |
Loc: Hot as Hell Phoenix
| |
|
Heh again, I
didn't write this. I sinmply changed some settings and removed
reference to a script. Now, if you want, I might rework it again to
use the stats from my skill change mod (I have no idea where this is
right now, its... somewhere lol), Like acrobatics->agility and
security->luck...
-------------------- If I have told
you I will make something and you haven't heard from me since, send
me a PM. I'm quite forgetful. Reality is mankind's greatest
illusion. -- (\/) ][ |R /-\ |_
Post Extras: |
|
|
Yes, I stand
corrected -- I should be referring to it as
Balor's/Miral007's/Sederien's excellent mod, I guess. Though it's
not really a mod yet. Hmm, like herbalism, right? Balor started it,
came up w/the idea of doing something new and different, and that's
the most important part, but what I really like is Herbalism Redux.
That's if I'm remembering right, that balor came up with
it.
I'm curious why you made security a luck skill -- for a
while I thought about making luck govern some magical stuff, but
amount of magicka is set by that f or i intelligence multiplier. i
gave up on having it govern magicka, and i thought it would be
unbalancing to have it actually be a spell-skill, w/5x multipliers
and all -- (though now that i don't have to worry about multipliers
any more...). I had wanted to come up w/a character-style that was
very good alchemist/enchanter but heavily penalized for actual
spell-casting, and since intel governed those skills and magicka,
it's always seemed like if you get good at alch and enchant you're
basically an idiot not to also use all that magicka you
get.
Currently I'm thinking about Personality-governance
changes. In my head the only way to justify illusion under Per has
been to think of it as "perception and personality," your perception
helping your ability to judge social nuances and therefore
speech/merc. So I've thought about making either sneak or marksman a
Per skill.
-------------------- ewww....how'd the
bandersnatch get all frumious?
Post
Extras: |
|
|
Quote:
I probably shouldn’t bore you with the exact details of
how much you just helped me, but you’re going to get them anyway.
Especially because you – quite literally – reawakened my love for
Morrowind and I couldn’t be happier!!!
well well well....
as i
get ready to install direct 9.0b, and a couple of more mods, I
checked once again the Forums! at the very last minute, it seems
there is a mod that i cannot live without!!
I gritted my
teeth a bit when i read all about the leveling system in Detail. I
want to Explore, to Play! I would imagine that i would have had to
be compulsive-obsessive, keep ten sheets of paper handy and pay more
attentio to the skill sheets than to the
game!
no!
oh...I *could* have just played anyways, and
not pay attention To Proper Skill Levelings....but i have giants,
morrowind enhanced, creatures of morrowind, mca 2.2....my landscape
will have Lots and lots of monsters!
now maybe i can "ignore"
luck, and place intelligence there, in the attributes. I will
play a Breton fighter/mage. light and heavy armor both i was going
to have as heavy armor was about the only endurance-increasing thing
out there that i could use! somehow, training SPEAR just to level
endurance is about as wise, in real life, as training in car
driving just to be able to board an airplane!
even if a bit
"bugged" it might be far far better than what is there!
I am
starting a new character, but i wonder.....i wonder if one *MUST*
start a new character to use this?!
if works as put
forth.....
freestone
Post Extras: |
Miral007 |
Diviner |
|
|
Reged: 10/28/03 |
Posts: 2639 |
Loc: Hot as Hell Phoenix
| |
|
You shouldn't
NEED to start a new character, but your character would still have
the level/skills/attributes from before this mod was installed,
which would somewhat diminish the effect.
My other mod has
Security as Luck because, well, have you ever tried to pick a lock?
Sure you need skill, but there is also a lot of luck invloved if you
want to get it done quickly. You have to use your knowledge and kind
of guess it to the best of your ability, but every lock is
different...
-------------------- If I have told you I
will make something and you haven't heard from me since, send me a
PM. I'm quite forgetful. Reality is mankind's greatest
illusion. -- (\/) ][ |R /-\ |_
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
Well, now that
we've all entered into the 'How to balance Morrowind' realm, let me
make an observation.
This pseudo mod will scale to your
playing style. It is possible to never level up in the course of the
game and to continue to increase your stats. At the same time, you
can level up every single chance you get and probably end up right
where you’d be if you played through regularly. Thus, it's really
quite flexible when used.
Now, I'm not entirely sure how
one would repackage this mod with changes, because it would vary
greatly by playing style in this case. For example, I would be
against assigning luck to any skill as I feel that it affects too
many variables to be considered anything other then a measure of
experience in the world.
However, this mod is simple enough
that several different versions could be made. (Some of which, I'm
now considering making myself in due time.)
One variation as
mentioned above is to simply switch attributes tied to skills.
(Variation 1)
I was thinking about a second variation that
would kill the level up altogether and automatically raise your
level every 15 to 20 skill points, but then I realized that it was
silly. (Based on the fact that the original mod allows you to level
up when you gain 10 major/minor and you'd be ridiculously pressed to
work on swords as a mage just to level, etc.)
The last would
just be a suggestion based on using the skill/cap remover mod with
this mod. Now that would make for an interesting experience, but
your monsters should probably be adjusted to compensate by other
mods.
I'm done. . . For the moment.
^^
-------------------- Currently working on: The
Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
|
|
*I just
noticed, and dbl checked, that I wasn't going up after gaining >3
strength levels from armorer, and >6 levels speech/mercantile. so
i'm guessing it's not catching when levels change when you're in
menu-mode?
* re: new game, i started all over. close to the
same character he was before, but not exactly -- because this makes
me feel like i can be more fast and loose -- if later i regret not
taking marksman as a skill it feels like less of a big deal because
even though i won't go up as quickly, if i practice and practice
i'll still get a payoff every three levels.
on the lock/luck
issue -- yeah, i gave up trying to pick a lock. i even d/led (and
printed out! the good ol' days when i had a corporate job i hated)
the "MIT Guide to Lockpicking." And since I do have intelligence,
you might be right Miral -- it's probably my luck. Though on
balancing issues I do agree w/Sederien about Luck governing
skills.
now, unless the menu-problem i cited above is caused
by the several three-letter changes I made to the bal_munchkin
script [changing "AddAgi" to "AddStr," etc.], then these changes to
governing attributes aren't causing problems. --- okay, i just
tested w/the backed-up miral's leveling .esp installed, and when i
went up 3 armorer levels i still did not get the strength
increase.
btw, i noticed when doing so that miral's esp is
approx. 79k or so and mine about 5k smaller -- other than the AddAtt
changes all i did was have testool clean the 'evil' gmsts -- could
that alone really account for 5k? if so, no f*in wonder that dirty
mods cause such problems.
-------------------- ewww....how'd the bandersnatch get
all frumious?
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
Cleaning it
also resulted in about a 5 Kb loss on my end as well. I'm going to
go through the scripts later tonight to see if there are any easy
ways to futher improve the mod and perhaps I'll locate the problem
there. On the other hand... Well, I have about no clue where to even
start looking for the global script.
*skitters away to
download GuriBhanGuri's guide*
-------------------- Currently working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
|
|
i thought it
was just the 7 scripts beginning bal_antimunch, those are the ones
asterisked by cs when i load leveling. but this is as far as my comp
skills go -- are those actually local scripts?
-------------------- ewww....how'd the bandersnatch get
all frumious?
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
I believe the
entire mod is purely created from global scripts. There should be
very little local scripting for a leveling mod. Which of course
brings me to why I need to delve through the mod myself. I need to
track when each variable is accessed and perhaps simplify the
scripting to work at any time (in menus, with books - which already
works, and everywhere else). That and check for the proper attribute
reduction scripts when jailed, etc.
*whee!*
(Actually, I'm a bit tired today, so I'm just going to go
back to learning MySQL database design for the moment. I'll get to
work on/look at this by Thursday at the very least.)
-------------------- Currently working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
Miral007 |
Diviner |
|
|
Reged: 10/28/03 |
Posts: 2639 |
Loc: Hot as Hell Phoenix
| |
|
Boy lotta
stuff happens when I'm at work with no access to the forums
(customer service at u-haul, can only look at u-haul crap...
ugh)
Anyways sorry if I don't cover everything
1) I
noted before that I had not cleaned it. Most of the mods I make are
for my own use with tribunal and bloodmoon on so GMSTs aren't a
problem, but here it slipped my mind...
2) While luck does
affect almost everything in game, its not by much. 50 luck would be
about equal to maybe 10 skill points... I would probably put it as
agility instead if luck were unbalancing... (grr wish this game had
a dexterity attribute along with agility... you can be dextrous but
not agile y'know...)
3) Most of the mod is indeed in the
munchkin script and those near it. The only other stuff I found was
game settings (o ya might wanna be careful when you clean... if the
number of removed GMST's is any higher than 72 you might wanna
revert and clean by hand)..
4) I'm not sure about the
stoppage after 3 gains... I'm an ammature scripter myself and didn't
look much past what I needed to change to fit Sederien's request. I
will open it up and take a look tomorrow (tuesday)...
5)
You're learning MySQL sederien? Jeez I don't really know any
scripting languages... Just the basic universals and try to wing it
from there... I do need to learn SQL and some other stuff though so
maybe I can get a better job than customer service... What are you
using to learn?
-------------------- If I have told you I
will make something and you haven't heard from me since, send me a
PM. I'm quite forgetful. Reality is mankind's greatest
illusion. -- (\/) ][ |R /-\ |_
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
Quote:
I'm not sure about the stoppage after 3 gains... I'm an
ammature scripter myself and didn't look much past what I needed
to change to fit Sederien's request. I will open it up and take a
look tomorrow (tuesday)...
Yea!
Quote:
5) You're learning MySQL sederien? Jeez I don't really know
any scripting languages... Just the basic universals and try to
wing it from there... I do need to learn SQL and some other stuff
though so maybe I can get a better job than customer service...
What are you using to learn?
Off-topic, but ok:
The
Visual Quickpro Guides. They have one specifically on PHP and MySQL,
which I picked up along with their refresher on HTML (which needs to
be known well before PHP). The books are by Larry Ullman and
Elizabeth Castro, respectively, and only $20-25 each. I also
heartily recommend Castro's to anyone starting out with HTML and
Ullman's to anyone who really wants to learn PHP/MySQL (It can
become a bit tedious/complicated and requires a good deal of
patience. However, I really love a programming language - of sorts
for you purists out there ^^ - which includes the functions:
explode() for PHP and the --i-am-a-dummy switch for
MySQL - No, I'm not making that up. There is actually a switch to
prevent you from doing stupid things with MySQL.)
I picked
up the books after attempting to mod phpBB with limited success. And, since I wanted a
dynamic site w/ a news post and forum, I figured what the heck. I'll
learn it all. Picked up the books and now that's why I don't yet
have time to learn Morrowind's scripting on top of that!
-------------------- Currently working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
|
|
M: yeah, i
wasn't complaining about the GMSTs, i saw your warning and did so.
It's just that i'm not that technical a person so i was surprised
that the file went from 79k to 75k just from gmsts getting cleaned
(and, yes, it was only 72 that TEStool cleaned). If they're really
that big then I understand why people call them evil!
*on the
bug, what I meant is that it wasn't going up at all when I was using
armorer and when I was using mercantile/speech. so i was guessing it
didn't work when you're in menus. i was going to try making potions
to see if the same thing happened in alch, but *now* when i load
that game it's even worse -- i went up a 3rd willpower skill (so not
in menu mode there) and it didn't go up. what it did do was give an
additional pop-up box, presumably the one where it should have said
"your willpower went up!", but the box was empty, just the white
border around the black space that flashed for a second. maybe
because this char now has 20/10 levels and hasn't levelled up? i
wouldn't mind being forced to level up at 10 or 11 if it meant this
working.
ah, wish i had the comp skills to help out
constructively. i looked at the script but it makes my eyes glaze
over. guess i'm one of those ten people who don't understand binary!
or is it nine, and the tenth one does...
-------------------- ewww....how'd the bandersnatch get
all frumious?
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
I'm not a
scripting wizard or anything, but could it be this line?
Code:
If ( MenuMode == 1 )
Return
EndIf
It's at the beginning of the Bal_Antimunchkin script.
...
Not sure about the other bugs yet...
...
Man, I really gotta install the TESC here at work
Notepad sucks
-------------------- If you hate working for those 5x
multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats and
skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
ppi |
Novice |
|
|
Reged: 07/18/04 |
Posts: 18 |
| |
|
"If you gain
any 3 skill levels tied to the same attribute that attribute goes up
(permanently) by one.
If you gain 10 major/minor skill
levels, you get the option to level up with 3 coins (same as
original), but only 1x (as opposed to up to 5x) for any
skill.
Result: You no longer have to plan your skills.
Yeeha!" (quick question when you say -option- up above does that
mean you can level up OR gain stats each 3 skill levels, not
both)
Well I was excited when I read this thread. I installed
it and tested it out.
After gaining 3 skill levels in one
skill my stats did -not- go up by one. I continued until I had
gained a level and the 1x multiplier did work as it was explained
to.
Anyway That description up above is *exactly* what I
want. I recentyl got morrowind started playing, then after learning
the level system I started training skills and avioding the use of
certain ones. I quickly realized how it suddenly sucked the fun from
the game. It seems you either have 'work' skills or suffer with
gimped stats if you play the game normally.
Post Extras: |
|
|
Quote:
I believe the entire mod is purely created from global
scripts. There should be very little local scripting for a
leveling mod. Which of course brings me to why I need to delve
through the mod myself. I need to track when each variable is
accessed and perhaps simplify the scripting to work at any time
(in menus, with books - which already works, and everywhere else).
That and check for the proper attribute reduction scripts when
jailed, etc.
*
sederien!
Can you tell
me if this mod is actually PLAYABLE now?
---i see that
someone just posted that they began a new game with this mod and his
stats did not level up at all. then there is the bug
descussions.
If this mod works, then i would be able to play
my game, not play some "powergamer" appraoch to leveling.
but
are these bugs that you find, "killing" for this
mod?
someday, tooo, someone should make a proper readme, or
something, that tells exactly how this works and how to use the
leveling principals.
too...if i were to use this mod, now, to
begin a new game with, if i find it currently buggy, can i remove it
without starting a new game.
?????
at least you do
not have the problem that another modder has, with a new realsed
mod! he accidently left part of another project *in* the mod, and he
told everyone to begin a new game, with it. Most of the stuff inside
the room at the census office was not there due to that mistake!
then he corrected the error and put a revision up. aha!! bug
gotya! the door out of the census office is disabled, now, so one
cannot ever ever leave that first building, off of the dock at the
beginning of the game!!
thanks...freestone
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
Ok... I'm
going to take these in turn.
Madd_Mugsy:
Looks like it's a
required script for most mods. But that's really only my impression
at a glance. Now it might be called at an inappropriate time or it
might need a secondary script to handle in-menu functions, but that
I'll try (or anyone may try) after I finish working on MySQL. -- I'm
halfway through or so...
Here's a direct quote from
GhanBuriGhan's latest scripting guide:
Quote:
Ok, save and test your mod. Works fine now, doesn’t it? Well,
almost. Try the following: let yourself be cursed, and then open
your inventory. Wait. See how the curse terminates after some
time, without hurting you? Of course: the script is still running,
but spell effects are only calculated while in game, not while you
are in the menu. We don’t want the player to get off the hook so
easily, so we need to put something in our script that stops it
from processing when we are in menu mode. Luckily there is the
MenuMode function, which returns 1 when you enter the menu. So we
can put this at the start of our script:
Code:
If ( MenuMode == 1 )
Return
Endif
It's on page 20, if you want to take a look for yourself.
ppi:
In
response to your quick question... I just meant that you as a player
always have the option as to when you want to sleep and thus level
up. (I personally use Sleep or Suffer and don't have that choice
myself ^^, but that's irrelevant.) The mod should not force you to
choose between leveling up or gaining skills. Then again, it does
seem to be in a rather buggy state.
Oh, and it really
shouldn't be performing as you described. At the very least,
non-menu related skills should be going up. Make sure you have this
mod loading absolutely last and then it should be partially
playable...
freestonew:
Playable? Yes.
Perfect? Not by a long shot.
There's apparently a
lot of bugs that need to be hammered out and I plan to go through
the scripts soon. (Though, again, my first priority at the moment is
website creation.)
I personally have used the mod (clean the
GMSTs first) with over a 137 mods on top (note: leveling.esp was
loaded dead last with leveled_lists.esp being the only exception).
And it worked to a limited extent. As noted, the menu skills don't
seem to be triggering at the moment and that seems to be consistant
across the board.
So, it could be described as playable as
it is now, but you'd still have to put up with the following:
- At the moment you gain absolutely no ability points from
speechcraft, armorer, enchant, mercantile, etc. (anything
involving menus to use).
- We're still not sure what happens when you hit 100 in
attributes.
- We have no clue if any level downs occur (and they shouldn't
occur to clarify).
- As you can see, this mod has yet to undergo extensive testing.
(Books giving you skills work just fine though).
Quote:
if i were to use this mod, now, to begin a new game with, if i
find it currently buggy, can i remove it without starting a new
game.
Considering the way this mod
works, I do not believe that would be a problem at all. Though,
hopefully either myself or another forum user will have an updated
version of this mod soon. (Soon for me means up to two weeks or so.)
------------------------------------
Hope that helps answer those questions. I know I want this
to get done too, but I have to say that I can't even touch this
until the weekend. I will give an update, though, when I do.
Oh, and if you want, I'll repackage the mod in progress as a
[WIP] w/ a readme and put up for download so there's a better
general idea of what this does vs. what it's supposed to do.
Rest assured, I'll be working on it as soon as I can.
-------------------- Currently working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
Actually,
Madd_Mugsy, you might have found it. I just read over the page in
more detail and the global script probably doesn't need a menu
return function.
I'll see if I can do some editing tomorrow.
Tonight, I'm booked from the end of work to way past when I should
be sleeping for the next day.
-------------------- Currently working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Quote:
Looks like it's a required script for most mods. But
that's really only my impression at a glance. Now it might be
called at an inappropriate time or it might need a secondary
script to handle in-menu functions, but that I'll try (or anyone
may try) after I finish working on MySQL. -- I'm halfway through
or so...
Here's a direct quote from GhanBuriGhan's latest
scripting guide:
Quote:
Ok, save and test your mod. Works fine now, doesn’t it?
Well, almost. Try the following: let yourself be cursed, and
then open your inventory. Wait. See how the curse terminates
after some time, without hurting you? Of course: the script is
still running, but spell effects are only calculated while in
game, not while you are in the menu. We don’t want the player to
get off the hook so easily, so we need to put something in our
script that stops it from processing when we are in menu mode.
Luckily there is the MenuMode function, which returns 1 when you
enter the menu. So we can put this at the start of our
script:
Code:
If ( MenuMode == 1 ) Return Endif
It's on page 20, if you want to take a look for
yourself.
Yeah, I read that too. What it
does is STOP the script when the menu is on. We don't want to do
this because it means that skills like armorer will never get the
stat increase.
-------------------- If you hate
working for those 5x multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all
your stats and skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
Quote:
Yeah, I read that too. What it does is STOP the script when
the menu is on. We don't want to do this because it means that
skills like armorer will never get the stat increase.
Aye, see above.
-------------------- Currently working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
I don't like
how confusing this script is and I don't like the fact that stats
can go down... so I'm rewriting the whole thing from
scratch.
I should have it done in a day or two, depending on
how much crap I have to do here at work
-------------------- If you hate working for those 5x
multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats and
skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
*laughing*
Go for it! You'll probably have more
luck then I when it comes to both time and scripting. I'm off for
the night. Good luck.
-------------------- Currently
working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Also...
Skills are currently capped at 100, but
attributes aren't.
-------------------- If you hate
working for those 5x multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all
your stats and skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
Miral007 |
Diviner |
|
|
Reged: 10/28/03 |
Posts: 2639 |
Loc: Hot as Hell Phoenix
| |
|
Alright let me
ask this.... are these same bugs present in the origional version
that I didn't touch? This will help me a lot in getting out the
bugs
-------------------- If I have told you I will make
something and you haven't heard from me since, send me a PM. I'm
quite forgetful. Reality is mankind's greatest illusion.
-- (\/) ][ |R /-\ |_
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Yes I believe
so.
-------------------- If you hate working for those 5x
multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats and
skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
|
|
Well -- now
I'm finding the bug is not all there. I started a new game. (It's
still very early, stil lvl 1). I'd noticed something in the script
that looks like a timer or something along those lines. I've done a
little mercantile/speechcraft. Each time one of those skills has
improved, I've scrupulously exited the menu and counted a few
seconds in my head before returning to the schmoozing and bartering
process. Between illusion and the social skills, my personality
skills have gone up seven times, and personality has increased
twice. (Ill was only once, so both those 'sets-of-three' depended on
in-menu-mode skill increases)
-------------------- ewww....how'd the bandersnatch get
all frumious?
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
Heh, all of
this makes me want to change the title to [WIP] A Simple Leveling
Mod...
Or perhaps [WIP] (any combination of M, S, and B)
Leveling Mod: Like the BSM Leveling Mod. (Standing for the Miral007,
Sederien, Balor Levelling Mod)... Crud. I'm just tired. Good luck
Miral.
-------------------- Currently working on: The
Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
|
|
Quote:
Heh, all of this makes me want to change the title to [WIP] A
Simple Leveling Mod...
Or perhaps [WIP] (any combination of
M, S, and B) Leveling Mod: Like the BSM Leveling Mod. (Standing
for the Miral007, Sederien, Balor Levelling Mod)... Crud. I'm just
tired. Good luck Miral.
thanks Sederien, thanks
all....
that is encougaging about the
speechraft....etc...working.
maybe i can use it then. I am
"hesitating" to begin my new game, not because of the WIP, but
because Aeleron is apparently going to upgrade one or more of his
Enhancment mods and then the "Morrowind patch" is also going to be
upgraded: a fresh new game *IS* required!
my! one can
never never really ever get To Play!!
freestone
Post Extras: |
|
|
I don't know
anything about scripting, but I would like to have something like
this in my game.
While new graphics and monsters and the
like are all well and good, it's the rules that really makes or
breaks a game imo.
For those who have fiddled with it so
far, I think it would be helpful if you posted what you've
discovered so far. Maybe us dummies can larn sumfin.
I want to add a few features of my own into this, as part of
my own levelling rules. This esp gives you ability points for every
3 skill ranks PLUS three when you level. If you do the numbers,
you'll see that it won't be too hard to be near all 100s in your
abilities at top level.
I'd like to know where you indicate
how many ranks you need before getting an ability point, so I can
change it to 4 or 5. I'm also going to change the level requirements
of maj/min from 10 to somewhere between 20-30, depending on how the
numbers play out.
(edit) Oh! I was also wondering if anyone
knows how to reverse the "polarity" of skill gain. I have a mod
called Failure Based Progress which has your skills advance from
failures, not successes, which I think is a great change.
Currently, it's very hard to advance low skills, since you
rarely ever succeed, but it's super easy to advance top skills,
since you almost always succeed. Many gamers simply use trainers
until they're at least 30 in a skill, saying it's too hard to raise
otherwise. I think it should be the opposite. You learn from your
mistakes, not your wins. This allows you to raise your low skills
quickly, when you need it most (raising levels quickly), while
making it very hard to perfect your skill of 98.
Think
olympic athletes or chess grandmasters. It takes intense amounts of
training to gain that razor edge to your near-perfect skill. But
everyone and their grandmother can tell you not to hold a sword by
the blade, or try to buy goods cheaply by saying, "your stuff sucks.
You should give it to me free."
I think raising skills from
failures and not successes is how it should be, so... anyone who can
help, thanks!(/edit)
Edited by
Aeroldoth (07/29/04 07:50 PM)
Post Extras: |
ppi |
Novice |
|
|
Reged: 07/18/04 |
Posts: 18 |
| |
|
What do you
mean by having a certian esp load last?
the level esp is on
the bottom of my mod list, only because it's the last one I've
installed. I don't know how to change the order the esp files load
in.
Edited by ppi (07/29/04 08:04
PM)
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
Once again in
order:
freestonew:
Quote:
my! one can never never really ever get To Play!!
I agree, but the trick is to
set a date, download the best, and play knowing that your next
character will have the benefit of the best of the mods from your
first and new mods. I.E. I'm just about to finish downloading all of
mine and run them through conflict things knowing that by the time
I'm done playing, Wizard's Island should be released! (No, I never
trust a release day in full.)
Aeroldoth:
Quote:
For those who have fiddled with it so far, I think it would be
helpful if you posted what you've discovered so far. Maybe us
dummies can larn sumfin.
I'm sure we will soon enough.
--
Ok, as to the options for a mod, here's what I
would do if I had the ability to code it. There will be an item in
*gasp* the Census office at the beginning of the game. That static
item would, when activated, give you the following choices:
How many skill levels should you gain for an attribute
point?
2, 3, 4, 5, or 6.
Then I would make several
versions of the mod with different stats equalling different
attributes (i.e. one luck to security, the other agil to security).
That would be all that's necessary to fulfill the most basic
of needs for players who want this mod (or at least the most common
requests).
Quote:
Oh! I was also wondering if anyone knows how to reverse the
"polarity" of skill gain. I have a mod called Failure Based
Progress which has your skills advance from failures, not
successes, which I think is a great change.
While I disagree with this
method of leveling - as I assume that one who is not trained in a
skill will find the road much more difficult without the add of even
a single tutor - I actually can find no reason (off the top of my
head) why the Failure Based Progress mod shouldn't work with the MSB
Leveling Mod (or whatever you want to call it). I know from looking
at the scripts that the leveling mod relies on your skill level
going up. It does not affect how you get there or why you get there.
Thus, changing the scripts to level up another way (as in the FBP
mod) shouldn't affect the leveling mod. If anyone wants to test
this, please let us know! (I'm still learning MySQL at the moment.
Halfway done!!!)
ppi:
Ok... Well, we knew the mod was buggy as it stands now. If
it's last in the list, it's where it should be. Anyway, this program at the bottom of the linked page will
let you switch the order of loaded mods (but you need java support
to run it).
Good luck all.
-----------------
As for the rest, well, I know Miral and others are working
on it as hard as they can. I'm sure we'll have some progress soon.
By the way, to Miral and anyone else working on the mod, I'd
be more then happy to host the finished product if need be.
-------------------- Currently working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Ok....
As promised yesterday, I have made a brand new leveling mod
called the "Madd_Leveler".
It does the following:
--
Sets all the level up bonus abilities to 1. -- Adds an ability
point every 3 skill points -- Is capped at 100 points max /
skill / attribute (for purists) -- Acrobatics -> Agility,
Spear -> Strength -- Makes it really quick to go up in skill
points (this is just for testing, I plan to take it out once
everyone has got it to work).
If you can get into the
editor, you can edit my script to really easily let you do the
following:
-- Alter the # of skill points per new ability
point -- Make it level you up automatically w/out resting
(untested yet) -- Allow your attributes to go over 100 (but not
your skills) -- Cap your skills at 99 (or whatever less than
100) which should let you keep advancing forever, especially if you
uncap your attributes (untested yet)
I have only been able
to do some basic testing since I'm at work
So I know for sure that acrobatics will add an agility point
after 3 skill points are gained. But I thought I'd release it here
anyway for you guys to play around with. I have cleaned it using
TESTool.
The only weird bug I've seen so far is when you
pick your race/class at the beginning. It may say that abilities
have increased and up your stats a bit. And again when you review,
if you change your race/class. But when you review, it seems to keep
the values at the proper amounts... .... ... Nevermind....
Bug fixed. I made it so that the script doesn't start until you talk
to Sellus Gravius for the first time (when it tells you not to use
persuasion on him). Hopefully this doesn't conflict with any
existing mods. If you've already passed this part, then use this
from the console:
StartScript, "Madd_Leveler"
Anyway... Here it is. I'm heading home now, so I'll check
this thread for updates either later tonight (maybe) or tomorrow
morning for sure.
Link: http://www.euro-rpg.com/plugins/uploads/ID4822-2-26-Madd_Leveler-20040730.zip
L8r.
-------------------- If you hate working for those 5x
multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats and
skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
Wonderful!
I've downloaded it and will test it out right after I finish up my
change_password PHP script.
Oh, and adding it to Sellus
Gravius might conflict with my most useful mod of all: Quick Char -
For all your testing needs!
Then again, it might not.
-------------------- Currently working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
ppi |
Novice |
|
|
Reged: 07/18/04 |
Posts: 18 |
| |
|
The new script
is working properly. I gained stats with athletics blunt acrobatics
and unarmored.
Problem is the skill gain is insanely fast. I
was gaining blunt with each successful strike.
Also
TESconstruction set is what you use to make/edit scripts?
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
Great.
That's for testing.
Yes.
-------------------- Currently working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
|
|
Oh
well.
I just spent several hours testing Balor's(?) orginal
levelling mod, as well as miral's. I was able to gain a point for
every three ranks I advanced. Some here has said they couldn't, but
I never saw this.
I used a char with 100 speed and 21 short
blade. She gained three ranks and a message appeared saying my speed
went up, but the menu showed I didn't.
I then went fighting,
contracted helljoint, which lowered my speed to 85, and then gained
a point to speed, bringing me to 86. When I cured the disease, I
went back to 100, not 101, so I think that part's good. I tried this
in both mods.
I gained ranks in multiple skills, and gained a
point every time. I also did 2 armorer/1 long blade, and gained a
str without probs.
Lastly, I looked at the changes in the
mods, and noticed that Balor also changed the amount of hp you gain
per level. He changed fLevelUpHealthEndMult from 0.10 to 0.05,
halving your gain, as well as, of course, acrobatics from str to
agi.
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
Well, I
haven't had a chance to extensively test it just yet. But the
scripts seem to be working perfectly in and out of the menus. I had
no problems at all.
Once you get this all cleaned and set,
let me know. ^^ And good work! We all appreciate it.
-------------------- Currently working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
|
|
Madd_Mugsy,
I checked out your mod, and I really
like it. But I think I found a bug. I don't know if it affects the
other scripts as well though.
(Running MW no Expansions, just
FYI) When I cast a fortify skill spell, the script thinks I
improved my skills, and set's it's last variable to the fortified
value. It also updated the stats points variable by one.
This
is gonna cause trouble with the bound spells. That's three attribute
points that you might not be able to get back.
I
was thinking that if one more skill check was put in the script to
see if it is more than 1 above it's global variable then it wouldn't
trigger? (Course that would lead to issues with increasing your
skills while fortified.
)
I really like this idea, and would like to see it as bug
free as it can be.
Anyway, thanks for the mod.
-------------------- ----------------------------------------
Shhhh! The voices in my head are trying to tell me
something.
Post Extras: |
|
|
sederien,
i played a bit more w/ the "bsm" version
and my mode of religiously exiting menu whenever i went up continued
to work for barter/speech, it also worked w/armorer and alchemy.
then just for kicks i kept making potions w/out exiting the menu
each time, and when i quit after going up 6 or 7 lvls it didn't give
me any intelligence. I'm guessing your idea of giving options at
char.generation of how many points to level up, and your idea of
different .esps, will be more difficult. personally, i think it's
enough if the readme just tells you what things to change in cs to
change governing attributes, etc. i'm guessing anyone who can use
the forums, d/l, unzip and install a mod can follow that much --
anyways, i can.
madd_muggsy, i haven't tried your script yet,
though i'm about to. but i have looked at it -- wow, thanks so much
for not only joining this but also for making something w/such great
commentary! it makes changing a governing skill in the script as
easy as changing the point cost of a magic effect to make feather a
cheap spell!
i'm excited that this is -- fingers crossed --
getting close to completion. now, m_m, if only i knew what exactly
made this so fast-leveling for testing purposes and i could set it
back to normal....
oh, actually, m_m, a request for your
final version would be to have the script and the setting separate
-- i'm happy w/a lot of the changes from adventurers and would want
to be able to keep those (increase per successful use, fatigue cost
of running/jumping/attacking as well as some other things) when i've
installed the leveller.
-------------------- ewww....how'd the bandersnatch get
all frumious?
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
I don't think
you'll have to worry about the Madd_Leveller making any changes to
the speed in which you increase in skills. The only change that will
need to be edited on preference will likely be the change made
here:
Spear = Strength Acrobatics = Agility
That
should be it.
-------------------- Currently working on:
The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
|
|
sederien,
yeah, i just meant the "accelerated for testing purposes" thing. but
i think it must be the fMajor/Minor/MiscSkillBonus GMSTs. so i'm
just gonna set them back to the default levels and then try
madd_muggsy's version w/the character i had been using under the bsm
version. how's it going conquering mySQL ?
-------------------- ewww....how'd the bandersnatch get
all frumious?
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
I just changed
three variables for testing:
fMajorSkillBonus (default 0.75)
fMinorSkillBonus (default 1.00) fMiscSkillBonus (default
1.25)
I reduced these to like 0.10 or so, which makes it go
up really really fast
On the fortifying bug...
Firstly, thanks for
catching this.
I've adjusted the check from:
If (Current Skill -
Last Skill) >= 1 Then...
To
If (Current Skill -
Last Skill) == 1 Then...
Hopefully that will fix it.
Also...
I've tested the automatic leveling, and the
skill capping and they seem to work properly .
Are these things that you guys are interested in? Auto-leveling
means you don't need to rest to level up (It just brings up the menu
when you're ready). Skill capping means that if you set it to 99,
for instance, you can keep gaining levels/attributes after you've
maxed out all your skills. I can cap or uncap the attributes at 100
or whatever too.
Let me know ASAP and I'll put up a new
version.
BTW, thanks for the nice comments about my comments...
That's what happens when you're a computer programmer in real life
-------------------- If you hate working for those 5x
multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats and
skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Quote:
oh, actually, m_m, a request for your final version would
be to have the script and the setting separate -- i'm happy w/a
lot of the changes from adventurers and would want to be able to
keep those (increase per successful use, fatigue cost of
running/jumping/attacking as well as some other things) when i've
installed the leveller.
All I changed were the
attributes assigned to the Spear and Acrobatics skills. I think that
they're now the same as Adventurers.... Not 100% sure, as I don't
use it. I didn't touch anything else in the skills section. You will
need to alter the script slightly if these are different though, as
I had to hard-code the attributes for each skill into the script,
since I couldn't figure out how to derive them from the skills. It
would be so cool
if they had implemented a full OO scripting interface (like VBA in
MS Office) so we could check and edit tons more than we can right
now.
I could also make a separate Adventurers compatible version
after we settle on some of the features if you really want.
edit:
BTW, another thing we can do is assign
multiple attributes to a single skill. For instance, Security could
be Intelligence and Luck. This could get pretty fancy/complicated if
we wanted it to
another edit:
I just checked the Adventurers docs.
In that mod:
Spear->Agility
Acrobatics->Endurance Athletics->Endurance
-------------------- If you hate working for those 5x
multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats and
skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Edited by Madd_Mugsy
(07/30/04 02:00 PM)
Post
Extras: |
|
|
madd_m, i
found the three gmsts and put them back to what they were. as far as
i'm concerned, no need to make a separate "adventurers compatible"
or anything -- no biggie for the end-user to just tweak a word here
or there, especially since i already also tweak my own copy of
adventurers -- would you then be making an alexandrian_adventurers
compatible .esp? i'd feel guilty for even thinking about asking for
it.
edit: adv actually leaves acro as strength (at least the
2 versions i've ever used) although the docs say different, they had
a number of little errors like that w/encumbrance, etc.
spear/athletics did change like you said. end edit.
my
opinion on automatic levelling is -- no thanks. since hitpoints only
increase on levelling, i'll want to control that at least until 7 or
so -- maybe even until level 10 if i'm playing a bosmer or breton,
not to mention lvled lists for bad guys and loot i might not feel
ready to handle yet.
now, having skills be governed by
multiple attributes is, very, very interesting. i always liked
fallout's way of handling that. i keep thinking that "per" in mwind
should incorporate perception as well as personality (only way that
illusion makes sense to me) and that maybe it should govern all or
part of sneak, marksman, maybe even security as well. and it
improves roleplaying possibilities if you can think "i'm not so much
a burly, claymore-swinging master swordsman as i am a lithe and
graceful master of my katana" -- and since blades (faction) care
about long blade and light armor, doesn't that sound like them?
it might be interesting if conjuration was something like
2/3 intelligence and 1/3 personality, since you are more or less
"interacting" with the things you summon from the outerplanes. i
like making all 4 armors endurance skills, since you have to get
hurt to get better at them, but maybe light could be agi/end, un
spd/end, and hvy/med remain purely end so that those guys remain
tougher than the rest of us. hmm...fallout-style perks anyone? but
that's probably covered under the 50,001 bethesda/fallout 3 threads.
-------------------- ewww....how'd the bandersnatch get
all frumious?
Edited by
alexandrian_librarian (07/30/04 02:10 PM)
Post Extras: |
ppi |
Novice |
|
|
Reged: 07/18/04 |
Posts: 18 |
| |
|
since you
fixed the rate gain can you post the esp?
Right now I'm
watching a rat chew on my guy so he can get a good edurance
multiplier from his armor skill gain...
Automatic leveling
isn't something I want. Alot of these possible features sound
interesting, but I would like to stick more to the original game,
until I have more experience with it.
Edited by ppi (07/30/04 02:28 PM)
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
I just changed
all my attribute counters from shorts to floats
It's
not going to be too hard to allocate points to multiple stats for a
single skill. This way you could do things just like you said, 1/3
in one skill and 2/3 in another, or whatever.
HOWEVER, this
does pose some interesting complications. If you're splitting up the
points between different attributes, you'll need to keep in the
ratio between attributes in mind when workind your skills. IE:
Acrobatics is .5 agil, .5 str. Spear is .2 endurance, .6 str, .2
agil. You work both and get 1.1 str.
It's set up right now so
that if you have, say, enough for a 1.25 gain stored up, you'll only
get one point, and lose the 0.25..... Nevermind, I could fix that
pretty easily so you don't lose your extra partial points. (In fact
I'll do that right now -- BTW these changes won't break the original
script if we decide to scrap this idea)
It'd be easiest to do
this so that every skill is allocated to the same number of
attributes with the same ratio. That way you wouldn't need to keep
checking how much more you need to work each one to see an
increase.
IE: Acrobatics is .5 agil, .5 str. Spear is .5
endurance, .5 str. You work both and get 1.0
str.
-------------------- If you hate working for
those 5x multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats
and skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
Personally I'd
leave the auto-leveling out for two reasons:
- Each player has their own playing style and if they want to
become a god without sleeping at level 1, so be it.
- From a compatibility perspective: *KISS*
As for the
capping... Well, I've never actually played up to the point where
that would become an issue for me. I'd probably prefer the regular
rules stay in place on this for two more reasons:
- It prevents Agility from ever reaching say, 10000 and
instantly killing you any jump. ^^
- From a compatibility perspective: *KISS*
That should
be all.
Oh, and MySQL/PHP is going nicely, thank you. I'm
about 60% through and enjoying ever minute of it... Possibly too
much.
And
assuming this works, Madd_Mugsy:
-------------------- Currently working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
|
|
ppi,
if
you have the .esp, you can go into tes construction set that came
w/the game. in cs, go to file, open, choose 'clean madd_leveller.'
click on it so it both checks the box and sets it as active file.
when it's open, go under 'gameplay' on the top. choose 'settings' a
box called 'game settings' will open. choose the 'gameplay' tab.
click on 'ID' and it will put at the top the values that begin w/an
asterisk -- the asterisk means those were changed from the original
settings. the first three should be
fMajorSkillBonus --
change to 0.75 fMinorSkillBonus -- change to
1.00 fMiscSkillBonus -- change to 1.25
you can change them
by left-clicking -- not dbl. clicking -- on the number (the 'value'
side). save the .esp. run testool or some other cleaner that ditches
'evil' gmsts. normally it would tell you 72 gmsts were deleted -- in
this case, since those three will be returning to their original
values, testool (or similar) will tell you it has deleted 75
gmsts.
i'm sure someone will correct me if these instructions
are wrong -- but i'm pretty sure they're right.
-------------------- ewww....how'd the bandersnatch get
all frumious?
Post Extras: |
|
|
Quote:
Personally I'd leave the auto-leveling out for two
reasons:
- Each player has their own playing style and if they want to
become a god without sleeping at level 1, so be it.
- From a compatibility perspective: *KISS*
As for the
capping... Well, I've ........
hi Selderien, and
all....
I am getting a slight urge to start my new game soon.
I am assuming, right, that if i do this, start a new game, and then
about five hours into the game at level 2, i can then go ahead and
install the leveling mod. which ever one gets really ready, that
is.....
I sympathize with you all for testing, as who knows
how far down the gameroad a bug could appear! say, at level 20,
wearing some ring of attribute-increase, hoses, ruins, the
script!!
a * thoughouh* bug tester would have to play the
entire game from beginning to end, Just To Be Sure!
and
then there are the 800+ mods that interact! certain
mods Could Kill the leveling scripts: who is to know
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
By popular
demand:
Version
0.2b
http://www.euro-rpg.com/plugins/uploads/ID4840-2-26-Madd_Leveler+v0.2b-20040730.zip
Changes: --
Fixed fortifying bug -- Restored skill gain rate to normal
-------------------- If you hate working for those 5x
multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats and
skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
|
|
Quote:
I just changed all my attribute counters from shorts to floats
ah, the discussion has gone
beyond my ability to follow...this is what happens when you're a
liberal arts major in real life. just kidding -- i know lots of
english majors take up coding, in fact since i've studied a little
formal logic other students have told me i should be able to
program. i'm still just trying to figure out what i think should be
a simple (if lengthy) script for my help-mages-be-organized tool
(little-read thread called something like "mage service npcs? how do
they...")
if only my algebra teachers had said "someday this
will help you customize CRPGs to your liking" i might have done my
homework once in a while!
i think i follow your observation
on consistent ratios and i think that makes sense. if they all go by
halves then skills that are 'pure' are essentially just two halves
to one attribute, right?
but maybe that should be a separate
.esp, though of course one fully compatible w/leveler? again, i am
just crazy happy that this part has come together. anything else is
gravy, y'know?
-------------------- ewww....how'd the
bandersnatch get all frumious?
Post
Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Quote:
a * thoughouh* bug tester would have to play the entire
game from beginning to end, Just To Be Sure!
I *wish* I had that much free
time! As it is, I've never come close to having enough time just to
do the main quest.
You
guys are going to have to let me know if there's any mod conflicts,
because I don't have any mods here at work
-------------------- If you hate working for
those 5x multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats
and skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
Well,
Madd-Mugsy just solved your problem then. The version that basically
does exactly what I originally requested way back when is up in the
above post.
That should work perfectly, but now we're
looking at new features, etc.
By the way, Madd_Mugsy. Please
keep a copy of version 0.2b separate from the next so that we have a
few options when using the mod. ^^ I'd be happy to put together a
full readme for the mod(s) should you want one.
And one
more thing:
Quote:
if only my algebra teachers had said "someday this will help
you customize CRPGs to your liking" i might have done my homework
once in a while!
-------------------- Currently working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Quote:
By the way, Madd_Mugsy. Please keep a copy of version 0.2b
separate from the next so that we have a few options when using
the mod.
For sure. I think the easiest
way to do this is to have more than one esp in the zip file and a
nice readme describing the features of each. Of course, you could
only have one of them running at one time.
Quote:
^^ I'd be happy to put together a full readme for the mod(s)
should you want one
That would be sweet!
Can you just post it up on here and I'll include it in the next
zip file?
BTW, aren't databases fun?
I'm a SQL Server man, myself.
Cheers!
-------------------- If you hate working for
those 5x multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats
and skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Edited by Madd_Mugsy
(07/30/04 03:03 PM)
Post
Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
Consider it
done... I'll have it posted in 20 minutes (or else I won't be able
to post until tomorrow!) Either way, you'll get one.
-------------------- Currently working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
*****************************************************************
The Elder Scrolls III MORROWIND: The Madd Leveler
*****************************************************************
Index:
1. Description 2. Installing the Plugin
3. Playing the Plugin 4. Save Games 5. Credits and
Thanks 6. Contact Me
*****************************************************************
1. DESCRIPTION
*****************************************************************
This mod may soon have several different versions, but as of
0.2b only one version is available. The scripts used in the mod
are heavily commented, however, and any modifications can be
easily made through the Morrowind TES.
The following
changes will be made to Morrowind's leveling system when the mod
is properly installed:
-- Sets all the level up bonus
abilities to x1. (rather then x5) -- Adds an ability point every
3 skill points. (to balance above) -- Is capped at 100 points
max / skill / attribute (for purists) -- Skill Changes:
Acrobatics -> Agility, Spear -> Strength
New in 0.2b
-- Fixed fortifying bug -- Restored skill gain rate to
normal
(NOTE: This mod should *not* be incompatable with any
other mods that affect the rate at which skills increase, etc.
The only incompatibilities may be mods which change the
attributes skills are tied to... But you can edit this script in
the TES:CS.)
*****************************************************************
2. INSTALLING THE PLUGIN
*****************************************************************
To install the plugin, choose the version (only one
currently) that you'd like to install and unzip the
corresponding esp into your Morrowind Data Files directory.
*****************************************************************
3. PLAYING THE PLUGIN
*****************************************************************
Simply check the plug-in version you installed and play the
game as usual.
*****************************************************************
4. Save Games
*****************************************************************
This should not invalidate your old save games. But making a
backup copy is always good...
If you save your game
while this plugin is loaded, you may encounter error messages
when you reload the saved game without the plugin. But you will
be able to continue on with the original game.
*****************************************************************
5. Credits and Thanks
*****************************************************************
This mod was fully scripted and edited by Madd_Mugsy.
However, many people contributed to the creation of this mod and
should be recognised for their input:
Sederien - For the
initial request and idea. Miral007 - For scripting attempts and
lessons. ppi, alexandrian_librarian, freestonew,
MysticResearcher, and Aeroldoth - For bug testing and general
helpful comments.
Thanks as well to Bethesda and the
Morrowind staff for such a great game!
Cleaned with TES
Advanced Mod Editor (by Erik Benerdal).
*****************************************************************
6. Contact me
*****************************************************************
Fill this part, Madd_Leveler. Or leave as
below:
Any questions or concerns can be
brought to (Your email), Sederien at sederienATcosmicspeck.com,
or the Elder Scrolls forums at:
http://www.elderscrolls.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=
UBB7&Number=2815983&fpart=&PHPSESSID=
-------------------
And yes, SQL is sweet.
Also, I have no problems with supporting/hosting this mod.
Let me know by pm if you'd like a page set up like the one in my
sig. I'll make a better one in time, of course. But first I need to
get through all of PHP. ^^
I'm off till tomorrow.
-------------------- Currently working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
ppi |
Novice |
|
|
Reged: 07/18/04 |
Posts: 18 |
| |
|
Alexander I
appreciate your effort to explain how to edit it, but currently I'm
avioding any use of TES construction. I don't even have it
installed. I got into scripting for a game I once played, and it
never ended. I always had something to improve on and I never was
satisfied with my work and I never just played the game from then
on. I just don't want to even start with morrowind. So with that in
mind I'd like to give a big thank you to the people who DO script
these things. I fully appreciate what you do, and I -hope- you get
enjoyment out of it because I certainly did not.
Madd Mugsy
thank you, this script will let me play without having to employ
retarded methods of leveling. And thank you Sederien for bringing
this up, I wouldn't have ever thought of it any time soon. It
seriously ruins my experience everytime after I start a character
and get into the meat'n'potatoes of his developement then realize- I
can't gain my blunt weapon skill> until I gain more heavy armor,
because I need the endurance multiplier, ect and on and on with each
level. Drives me nuts *_*
Post Extras: |
|
|
*balor should
get props in the credits section
and, coupla teeny tiny
typos: section 1, "made through the Morrowind TES. " should say cs
or construction set. same section, a few lines down -- "be
incompatable with any" should be "incompatible"
and even more
picayune and persnickety -- same section -- while "attributes skills
are tied to" is gramatically okay, adding "that" so that it's "which
change the attributes that skills are tied to." or even "the
attributes that individual [or specific or particular] skills are
tied to" may be clearer for those who'll be seeing this for the
first time. actually, "governed by" might be still better, since
that's the language in the cs.
and, by way of getting in
touch with my inner eighth-grade girl (my inner child's girlfriend,
don'tcha know), sederien and madd_muggsy, these
are for
you.
-------------------- ewww....how'd the
bandersnatch get all frumious?
Post
Extras: |
|
|
ppi -- gotcha,
i see your point. cool that they fixed it for both of us!
-------------------- ewww....how'd the bandersnatch get
all frumious?
Post Extras: |
Miral007 |
Diviner |
|
|
Reged: 10/28/03 |
Posts: 2639 |
Loc: Hot as Hell Phoenix
| |
|
Wow go into my
cave and start working, come out for a drink and someone has already
finished it! Heh good job, guess I'll go back in my cave and play
Battlefield Vietnam
-------------------- If I have told you I will make
something and you haven't heard from me since, send me a PM. I'm
quite forgetful. Reality is mankind's greatest illusion.
-- (\/) ][ |R /-\ |_
Post Extras: |
|
|
M_M, so i
d/led version 2 and, since i want to change a couple governing
attributes, opened it in the cs. when i tried to save the script, i
got an error relating to these lines:
If (mlRunOnce ==
0) Set RunOnce To 1 playsound "restoration hit" Messagebox
"Madd_Leveler Enabled!"
i reloaded it from the zipped file
and got the same error mesage, [ syntax error line 100 could not
find variable "RunOnce" ]
i didn't encounter any errors w/the
first version. i'm guessing it's something to do w/it being
mlRunOnce and then RunOnce? Anyway i'll try that for now,
adding/deleting the "ml" -- in the first version there's no "ml" for
the line(s) that look like that.
-------------------- ewww....how'd the bandersnatch get
all frumious?
Post Extras: |
ppi |
Novice |
|
|
Reged: 07/18/04 |
Posts: 18 |
| |
|
I get the same
error tested it and it doesn't give an attribute when you gain 3
skill levels.
Post Extras: |
|
|
Quote:
I get the same error tested it and it doesn't give an
attribute when you gain 3 skill levels.
ahh, i knew it was too good to
be true! they're just f*c**n* with our heads! it's a communist plot:
the manchurian mod!
CS was still dissatisfied when i removed
the "ml" from the "mlRunOnce", so instead i added "ml" to the
"RunOnce" and it let me save. about to try a little in-game testing.
-------------------- ewww....how'd the bandersnatch get
all frumious?
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
My
bad.
I forgot to rename a variable in one spot and for some
reason it didn't catch it when I saved the script like it usually
does.
I renamed Runonce to mlRunOnce so it would reduce the
possibility of conflict with other mods.
I'll be posting
version 0.3 in the next hour or so
(hopefully).
-------------------- If you hate
working for those 5x multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all
your stats and skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Massive props
to Sederien for the readme.
Next version to come out very soon, with multiple esps to choose
from.
Speaking of which, what versions does everyone want to
see?
I have two so far (since no one's interested in the
auto-leveling thing)
-- Standard (as in version 0.2b -- yes,
without the mlRunOnce bug) -- No Caps (attrbutes capped at 5000,
skills capped at 99 which allows really high leveling
Any
more?
I can change the skill points reqd for a stat increase, the
speed at which skills are gained, etc.
I'd rather save
adding multiple attributes to individual skills for a future
version, but it's totally doable
-------------------- If you hate working for those 5x
multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats and
skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Ok, I'm
building it now.
Any other versions will have to wait
But
not very long knowing me
Look
for it in 5-10 minutes.
-------------------- If you hate
working for those 5x multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all
your stats and skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
|
|
i concur --
release these two so far, save the multi-attribute-skills for a
future version, undoubtedly to be preceded by much back and forth in
the forums over which attributes they should be. also i think leave
the speed-of-skill-increase and 10 major/minor-points-to-level-up
alone, at least for now. (imo, no reason at all they need to be
changed anyway, but my mind is ever-changeable)
i think the
best thing for now is to share this awesome thing w/the whole
freakin' universe!
note my comment above on tiny typos in the
readme, sederien's initial and other early posts mention balor's
original work which gave everyone the idea in the first place (a la
herbalism) and not like it's such a big deal (i am not, in real
life, employed by a long-destroyed library in the northern portion
of africa) but i still think he or she should get credit.
-------------------- ewww....how'd the bandersnatch get
all frumious?
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
New Version
(0.3) with a nice readme:
Madd_Leveler 0.3
Please report any bugs to
me via this thread ASAP and I will fix them ASAP.
-------------------- If you hate working for those 5x
multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats and
skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Quote:
note my comment above on tiny typos in the readme, sederien's
initial and other early posts mention balor's original work which
gave everyone the idea in the first place (a la herbalism) and not
like it's such a big deal (i am not, in real life, employed by a
long-destroyed library in the northern portion of africa) but i
still think he or she should get credit.
Done and noted thanks
-------------------- If you hate working for those 5x
multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats and
skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
Neldor |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 02/23/03 |
Posts: 159 |
Loc: In front of my monitor.
| |
|
I have an
idea, why don't you make a version with "iLevelupTotal" (how many
skillpoints you need before level up) changed to something like
999999999999 and add 1 hp (or anything, it's an example) every time
it's rised endurance and 1 magicka everytime it's rised willpower?
That way we'll have a full levelless system.
P.d.: Maybe a TC
will be needed for the problems that will arise with the leveled
lists....buffff
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Quote:
I have an idea, why don't you make a version with
"iLevelupTotal" (how many skillpoints you need before level up)
changed to something like 999999999999 and add 1 hp (or anything,
it's an example) every time it's rised endurance and 1 magicka
everytime it's rised willpower? That way we'll have a full
levelless system.
P.d.: Maybe a TC will be needed for the
problems that will arise with the leveled lists....buffff
Yeah I thought about that too,
but the leveled list thing would have you fighting wimpy creatures
forever.
-------------------- If you hate working for those 5x
multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats and
skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
ppi |
Novice |
|
|
Reged: 07/18/04 |
Posts: 18 |
| |
|
Thats a good
idea. You could fix it much like the attributes are fixed... Keep
the levels but remove all bonuses recieved from them. That way
you'll still 'level up' in the games mind. And by recieving
attributes/health/magika through skill gain and attribute gain
you'll still be near the same 'power' to the normal system.
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Yeah we can
definitely 100% control health like that. Not 100% on magicka and
fatigue, but I'm pretty sure that could work for them too.
To
get around the leveled list problem, we could just use
Player->SetLevel and phantom-level up. I could integrate this
with the auto-leveling part of the script.
BUT...
If
there's no level up menu, then how can you ever gain points for your
Luck attribute ?
-------------------- If
you hate working for those 5x multipliers (and would maybe like to
uncap all your stats and skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
ppi |
Novice |
|
|
Reged: 07/18/04 |
Posts: 18 |
| |
|
Theres a
couple issues that popped into my mind. First off it 'could' be
balanced by just running the numbers.
Figure out the
health/mana of a hypothetical character using the original morrowind
leveling system
Then figure out what it would be if you went
through and gained the same level in all the same skills with this
'new' leveless system
Also on a side note players would NEED
to have starting health calculated completely differently in this
version, because it would be much more benificial to start out with
less endurance so you can 'gain' the maxium amount possible and
therefore have more health. Although I am very unfamilar with normal
health levels for morrowind and how big or small they range in the
higher levels, since my highest level character is level 3...
Edited in: for luck it would have to be added to at least
one skill, and again I see an issue with starting attributes. If
only one skill gained luck then you could make plenty of characters
incapable of getting 100 luck, because you'd max out the skill
before you got enough attribute gains from it. This would apply to
other attributes. Each skill would probably need at least 4 skills,
or you could allow players to continue to gain attributes after the
skill gain stops somehow?
Edited by
ppi (07/30/04 06:37 PM)
Post
Extras: |
Neldor |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 02/23/03 |
Posts: 159 |
Loc: In front of my monitor.
| |
|
"Creature
Intensity" and "Unleveled creatures" can be also a solution, but
what about creature mods like Giants...etc? Unlevel all those
creatures would be a lot of work
Link: http://www.elderscrolls.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB7&Number=2743095&Forum=All_Forums&Words=unleveled&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=1year&Main=2742883&Search=true#Post2743095
Edit: About phantom level-up... AWESOME. About the Luck
attribute... THAT'S a good question Madd_Mugsy
Edited by Neldor (07/30/04 06:44
PM)
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Quote:
you could allow players to continue to gain attributes after
the skill gain stops somehow?
This is what happens when you
use the "no caps" version of the mod. Skills are capped at 99, so
they can still increase to 100 (and go back to 99) for leveling and
attribute gain. You could just cap the attribute @ 100, and the
skill @ 99.
But yes we would need to have more than one
attribute for each skill. Even if the only extra attribute is luck
for a few particular skills (I'm thinking sneak, security, etc)
EDIT:
OR!!!! It could go up an equal amount for ALL
skills! Every skill would give you 0.10 luck or something.
This latest tangent should probably go into a separate
esp...
-------------------- If you hate working for those
5x multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats and
skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Edited by Madd_Mugsy
(07/30/04 06:48 PM)
Post
Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Tangent:
Wow look at all the views on this thread
I bet Sederien never thought his idea would generate this much
interest
-------------------- If you hate working for those 5x
multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats and
skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
Neldor |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 02/23/03 |
Posts: 159 |
Loc: In front of my monitor.
| |
|
That mod looks
better and better...
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Does anyone
know the formulas for gaining health, fatigue &
magicka?
I think magicka = Intelligence, but am not sure how
it goes up each level.
-------------------- If you hate working for those 5x
multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats and
skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
|
|
I apologise
for not reading through the entire thread, but I can't help but
notice the comments about the original mod (minus leveldown) not
working for menu based skills.
This is wrong. It does work
for armorer, speechcraft, etc. You just need to stop doing it after
the skill increase (get out of menu mode) and it'll work as
normal.
I've been using the original mod for at least a year
now, so I'm fairly sure of this I'd
also answer the Q about what happens when you hit 100, but it's
about 8 months since I played the same char long enought to get to
that point
If I recall correctly, the stats will stop going up - you won't
get over 100. Losing skills will still put the stat down again
normally though, I think.
-------------------- LichCraft 0.95 beta - discussion thread Homepage and download link
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Yes, I was
incorrect when I said that in Balor's mod the attributes could go
over 100. I had forgotten that modStrength, etc, doesn't let your
stats go over 100.
-------------------- If
you hate working for those 5x multipliers (and would maybe like to
uncap all your stats and skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
|
|
i don't know
about fatigue going up, but magicka does not increase when you level
up (some mods change this), but it always remains something
determined from your intelligence and other modifiers (birthsign,
race). default is magicka score == intelligence before anything
else.
it is my sad duty to regretfully inform you that when
punching scribs wearing bound gloves, 3 hth increases did not lead
to a speed gain. waited for the spell to wear off, still no gain.
went and punched a scrib w/out bound gloves, got the speed gain
after 3 lvls. i've got the leveling mod (latest version, standard
version, w/light and un assigned to endurance in the script and in
the "character->skills" menu, testooled to kill the 72 gmsts and
to load the madd leveler last)
-------------------- ewww....how'd the bandersnatch get
all frumious?
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Do the gloves
fortify your HtH skill or your speed attribute?
-------------------- If you hate working for those 5x
multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats and
skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
|
|
one glove
fortifies hth skill 10 points, the other one fortifies agility
attribute 10 points -- bound boots fortify speed 10 points, each of
the bound weapons fortifies the appropriate skill 10 points
(longbow: marksman, battle axe: axe, etc), shield fortifies block 10
points, cuirass fortifies all 4 armor skills by 5 points each, helm
also fortifies all 4 armor skills by 5 points each (sorry if too
much info, but i figure tmi better than too little)
-------------------- ewww....how'd the bandersnatch get
all frumious?
Post Extras: |
ppi |
Novice |
|
|
Reged: 07/18/04 |
Posts: 18 |
| |
|
I tried
version 3 standard. No attribute gain for me. My character can't
afford enchanted items yet. So I think something is disabling
attribute gain, with standard version (haven't tried the other
one).
Hopefully this means you did fix the fortify bug, just
made a typo or something somewhere in version 3.
I recieve a
gobal something error(sorry I forgot the name) when the game first
loads also... probably the same problem that is preventing attribute
gain.
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Ok sorry for
the delay... real life intervened.
I think I have figured out
the fortify bug, but will need some time to test it.
I'll
post a new version ASAP, but it may not be til morning sometime
(it's nearly 12am here now)
ppi -- not sure what your problem
is yet. I'm assuming it's part of the fortify bug for now. In the
meantime you can try to stop and start the script again thru the
console:
StopScript, "Madd_Leveler" StartScript,
"Madd_Leveler"
L8r.
-------------------- If you
hate working for those 5x multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap
all your stats and skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
fragonard |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 03/16/04 |
Posts: 232 |
Loc: san diego | |
|
It's working
fine for me - I really like it. One odd thing though, I was in an
alchemy/enchant session and left the menu after each skill point but
it didn't add to the intel attribute even after 9 points. I thought,
no problem, I'll just add 3 pts by console. After about 5 minutes
real time it added 1pt then another and another a few minutes apart
... so after leveling up and 10 minutes later, it all caught up.
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Ahahahaha. I
found and fixed the fortify bug
Will
post a new version ASAP.
-------------------- If you hate
working for those 5x multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all
your stats and skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Get 0.4 here:
Madd Leveler Version 0.4
I tested the
fortify thing and it worked perfectly w/a bound dagger for me. Other
attributes increased properly too.
I'm going to hit the hay
now. L8r guys.
-------------------- If you hate working
for those 5x multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your
stats and skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
Ok... I'm gone
for a few hours and yes, Madd_Mugsy, the view/post count nearly
doubles!
Let me address things in order once
again:
alexandrian_librarian:
Thanks
for the spelling/grammatical notes. I was - as noted - a fair bit
rushed and hadn't even run it through a proper spell checker.
^^
Much appreciated. (Especially how could I forget
Balor!?!)
Miral007:
Heh, yeah. Was
wondering where you had run off too...
You're credited for the original attempt though. Thanks for the
initial stab at this one.
Madd_Mugsy:
Thanks. And thanks
again... We all appreciate it. And I’ll be making that site tomorrow
or Sunday at the latest. Shall let people know in my sig when it’s
ready.
Oh, and I'll change it in the readme for the uploaded
mod to the new site, but AT should probably be changed to @ in my
address. I just didn't want to post it on the forum as it was
considering the amount of web crawlers out there. (I have my own
scripts to take care of that problem for my sites, but they require
PHP). Hurrah for scripting languages!
ppi:
The health issue is still
there, but was so minor compared to the actual leveling system that
I didn't even mention it in the original request. Now that you bring
it up, however...
There is a K(something) No Planning mod
that attempted to make a dynamic health system thus:
Health
was calculated based on your attributes every time you put on a
special ring. Thus, you would always have the correct amount of
health without having to worry if your endurance wasn’t high enough
in any particular level.
Would this be a good thing? I have
no clue right now. I’ll think about it tomorrow. For now, I’m tired
and gaining sleep levels is all I desire.
-------------------- Currently working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
|
|
Thanks
M_M,
I just finished working on the fortify issue, and found
a solution my self. I stopped to comment the code I used and by the
time I got back here, you had .4 up.
Thanks
and I am downloading it now.
-------------------- ----------------------------------------
Shhhh! The voices in my head are trying to tell me
something.
Post Extras: |
|
|
How sweet it
is.
The fortified skills issue is as dead as a doornail. And
the fix to it. Man, it's so simple and effective. Beautiful,
really.
Thanks man.
Edit: (Two posts in a row,
didn't want to make it three.)
After some searching I think
I found that No Planning mod on Morrowind Summit: Kobu's
Leveling Mod or Kobu's No Planning.
It appears to set the
health to Endurance * 3, irrelevant of level.
Not sure if
that's what y'all wanted to know, but I hope it helps.
-------------------- ----------------------------------------
Shhhh! The voices in my head are trying to tell me
something.
Edited by MysticResearcher
(07/31/04 05:56 AM)
Post
Extras: |
|
|
i remember
trying that mod and not loving health = end * 3. but that was
then...what do people think of that number? health effectively
90-300 under normal circumstances. i don't want any spoilers, but
i'm guessing there are baddies w/substantially higher hit points
than that.
so far looks like 0.4 is working fine w/enchanted
items, etc. one small note that maybe should be added to the readme
-- i switched to a different savegame and got an error message about
a different value stored in the local -- does that mean it was still
storing something from my previous game? it might also have been
because that second savegame had been played with version 0.3. but i
stopscripted it and startscripted it and it ran fine.
-------------------- ewww....how'd the bandersnatch get
all frumious?
Post Extras: |
|
|
actually -- if
you want to increase magicka by level, may i suggest that the
increased magicka be based on...luck? retain the intel = magicka,
plus race and birthsign, so that at level 8 w/intel 65 you've still
got 65 magicka + race/sign, but if you want it to go up at leveling,
you dribble in a little luck.
i've always been a little
dissatisfied w/intel=magicka because it means that it's wasteful to
create a character (say, an orc master craftsman) who's really good
at enchant and alchemty but not a spellcaster -- if you're putting
that work into intel anyway, you're gonna want to put those points
to use. but if magicka is not based on intelligence (or not
entirely), maybe that's different? (and i think i'm swayed by these
shared-world fantasies from the '80s, the "liavek" books, where
magic was considered a function of "bound" luck)
-------------------- ewww....how'd the bandersnatch get
all frumious?
Post Extras: |
|
|
Quote:
Ahahahaha. I found and fixed the fortify bug
Will
post a new version ASAP.
and
this is only 12K?!
far
cry from the 70+ k that the first version has!
yes NOW i can
begin my game from square one! and all that.
my hats is off
to you all, with work and life standing between fixing a very
complicated mod! "complicated' in that there are so many game
varibles that would have to be tested for! be easy to test the
mod for a new character at level one or two, but how about when he
is at 30, dealing with those bound items, magic increases, amulets,
rings, conjurgations ....not *only* in the mw/tib/bloodmoon, but
from all of the 800+ mods, some of which have stuff
like... WATKIMS GAME IMPROVEMNETS! [i noted that one the other
day, i am hesitant to use that one, with the Leveler!!]
but
you all did the best can can be done; nothing is perfect, in
morrowind, or in life!!
freestone
Post Extras: |
|
|
Quote:
but you all did the best can can be done; nothing is
perfect, in morrowind, or in life!!
freestone
I see that aerelon has come
out with a new version of
enhanced/combat/blocking/journal/writing! [all of the above!!!
]
mw
marches on: i better git going or i will never ever Play! NOW is
a good time to start, with the leveling mod!!!
freestone
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Ok, it's the
looong weekend (BC day) and I be out of the loop here until monday
or so. So I'll give you some things to think about until
then:
Health,
Magicka & Fatigue -- Increase these by level or by attribute
(& which & how much)? -- They will be earned a point at a
time, but should we increase them only when you've reached, say,
five points?
Luck
-- Associate to which skills?
Multiple
attributes per skill -- is this a good idea? How many skills per
attribute? And of course, which go with which?
Anyway, I'm
going to do some playing/testing for a bit before my husband-ly
duties kick in when my wife wakes up...
Have
a good one!
-------------------- If
you hate working for those 5x multipliers (and would maybe like to
uncap all your stats and skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
Wakim's Game
Improvements should not conflict with the mod in any way. In fact, I
plan on using it in conjunction to make leveling up
harder.
WGI just changes the rate at which levels increase.
Not the actual levels themselves and with the scripts implemented in
the Madd_Leveler, they not only don't conflict, they
compliment.
Nonetheless, probably safest to have the
Madd_leveler load last.
-------------------- Currently
working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
|
|
With regards
to associating attributes with skills, It's important to keep it so
that each attribute is still fairly represented.
In vanilla
MW, I think I'm right in saying that there are exactly three skills
associated with each attribute. When adjusting which corresponds to
which, and how many are linked to each skill, please try to keep
this balanced.
Nothing infuriated me more than Adventurer's
disregard for this when reassigning the skills
In fact, that's one of the main reasons I don't use it anymore!
-------------------- LichCraft 0.95 beta - discussion thread Homepage and download link
Post Extras: |
|
|
I hate to say
it, but the bug marches on. I *think* I'm only getting the fortify
bug now when I have more than one attribute fortified, but I'm
*definitely* getting it when I have more than one. It usually only
hits one attribute, and the bug works by "redding out" the number
for the attribute -- e.g., I'm wearing a constant effect pair of
slippers that gives 10 each to willpower and intelligence, so that
buffed they're 67 each. conjuration goes up, intelligence goes up. i
notice that my intelligence number is the same as it was a second
ago, but no longer in white.
i remove my...er...Slippers of
the Slippery Scholar, and my will goes down to what it should be
(57). my intelligence is now in red at 67 -- instead of giving me
the one extra point, it apparently decided my buffed intelligence
was my actual intelligence, then counted the loss, when item was
removed (or spell wore off -- this has happened w/both items and
spells), as a penalty or disease or whatever, so that restoring
(altar/spell/potion) puts my intelligence at 67. this has happened,
more than once, w/the following pairs -- intel/will (i think always
intell with the problem, but not certain), strength/agility (i think
always strength w/the problem), personality/luck (i think always
personality w/the problem -- actually, this one i'm certain it's
always been personality). it has not had any trouble recognizing the
all-day shrine bonus that fortifies luck. and i believe that in each
of these, when the bug was there, the fortify "F" in the lower-right
of the screen was there and accurately reporting the applicable
bonuses -- maybe that can be checked against changes when stats are
upped?
hey, we passed a thousand views a while ago. shall we
have a party?
-------------------- ewww....how'd the
bandersnatch get all frumious?
Post
Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
Rest assured.
The only change made in 0.4 (which - outside of any bug corrections
- should stay unchanged and included with any future releases) keeps
that balance. Acrobatics and Spear simply traded attributes:
Acrobatics now being agility and Spear now being Strength.
Outside of that change and the new skill/attribute
(no-planning needed type) leveling system this mod creates, there
are no balance changes within the game. In fact, as it stands, it's
literally the perfect (imho) replacement to the old leveling system
in such an open-ended world.
I can imagine that the only
complaint would stem from those who are of the opinion that a
character in Morrowind should be forced to make choices on
attributes to increase (therefore creating a less jack-of-all-trades
type character). This, of course, is a completely valid arguement
and it boils down to play style.
Thankfully, we'll have a
few ready made options for the Madd_Leveler by the time the whole
project (as I now refer to it) is done.
-------------------- Currently working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
Quote:
hey, we passed a thousand views a while ago. shall we have a
party?
Heehee. I was that 1000th
customer. And perhaps we should... I brought the drinks:
.
Actually,
it's the amount of posts that really surprizes me. We've really had
some great input for this mod the entire way through. Which reminds
me to note that additional features are being considered and were
asked about on page 8. I'll get some of my own comments in soon, but
for the moment, I'm working on culling my mod list for my first full
play through. (*gasp*)
-------------------- Currently
working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
|
|
Quote:
In vanilla MW, I think I'm right in saying that there are
exactly three skills associated with each attribute. When
adjusting which corresponds to which, and how many are linked to
each skill, please try to keep this balanced.
intelligence: conjure,
enchant, alchemy, security (4). strength: long blade, blunt, axe,
armorer, acrobatics (5). willpower: alter, mysticism, destroy,
restore (4). personality: blather, bargain, illusion (3). the
numbers per attribute vary.
the problem (or maybe just
caution) to assigning acrobatics to agility is that all strength
skills are now in the combat group (though armorer at least doesn't
require melee). the problem w/the stock version is that
stealth/mages types apparently can't build up more endurance (how
many thieves fight with halberds? how many healers run around in
ebony?). i see this as one of those issues of making a compromise
between gameplay and the demands of what some like to call "realism"
in the game.
i'd like to ask that people using version 0.4
of madd leveler test for the fortify bug when you have more than one
attribute fortified at a time, which is the problem i'm still
getting, and post their results. (edited to fix a typo)
-------------------- ewww....how'd the bandersnatch get
all frumious?
Edited by
alexandrian_librarian (07/31/04 03:11 PM)
Post Extras: |
fragonard |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 03/16/04 |
Posts: 232 |
Loc: san diego | |
|
Actually,
spear used to be under endurance in the std game. Now only med and
heavy armor are under endurance - that makes even harder for a mage
to boost endurance.
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
Whoops! My
bad. So it did...
Then, yes. We might need a slight
rebalancing for endurance. Suggestions anyone?
-------------------- Currently working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
|
|
well, my
solution is one i read about in some thread somewhere on this site
-- make all 4 armor skills governed by endurance. the rationale is
that those skills only go up when you get hurt, so they should
contribute to your hit points. and you can think of even an
unarmored person learning to stand up to blows and not fall
down/flee as increasing their endurance.
adventurers solution
was also good, making athletics an endurance, leaving
unarmored/light armor as spd/agility. that way med/hvy armor-users
are stll the real tough guys, the only ones to have endurance rise
quickly.
but since those tough guys are the ones who tend to
start w/higher strength and endurance right from the census office,
and since they're always rushing into battle, i figure they already
get the "tough guy endurance/hit point bonus."
sederien, are
you seeing the fortify bug w/0.4 when you have more than one
attribute fortified at a time?
-------------------- ewww....how'd the bandersnatch get
all frumious?
Post Extras: |
fragonard |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 03/16/04 |
Posts: 232 |
Loc: san diego | |
|
I agree, the
same suffering that builds any armor skill should also build
endurance. I understand the original idea that unarmored is
associated with speed but being unarmored makes you faster by being
unencumbered not by being beat up.
Post
Extras: |
|
|
Quote:
sederien, are you seeing the fortify bug w/0.4 when
you have more than one attribute fortified at a time?
well, over 100 posts now
eh?
i see the Forums loses track of the posts!! tis hard to
find the whole 9 page thread as the form program often says that
there are 5 pages!
i *think* that this might be due to how
the name of the thread often changed, during its growth!
yes
i am glad to read about how the WAKIMS GAME IMPROVEMents works with
leveling. I wonder what else works or not works. I will begin my
game soon.
freestone
Post
Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
Quote:
sederien, are you seeing the fortify bug w/0.4 when you have
more than one attribute fortified at a time?
Hmm... I actually haven't had
a chance to test the newest version yet, so I can't confirm the bug.
I will within a day or two, but at the moment I'm working on a few
other projects at once.
-------------------- Currently
working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
|
|
i'm switching
back to the miral/balor version, methinks -- i can live w/clicking
out of menus each time. i'll still be eagerly awaiting madd version
.5 w/fingers crossed for a fully bugfree game! and maybe i'll try
chopping that menumode == 1 return out of the m/b/s version.
-------------------- ewww....how'd the bandersnatch get
all frumious?
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
Actually, I
take this one back... I'm going to post a new thread.
[WIP] A Simple Leveling Mod Balancing Act
(Co-Thread)
Go there to see my Attribute/Skill
suggestions and stay here for updates on the mod, etc. I'll be going
back and forth between both and helping to sort out any mess that
comes about from concurrent threads, but this one will soon become
unmanageable otherwise. (Besides, the topics are now different
enough to work on balancing there and new versions here).
-------------------- Currently working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Edited by Sederien (07/31/04 08:56 PM)
Post Extras: |
|
|
for anyone who
doesn't mind opening up the construction set, i've changed a piece
of miral007's script (available from a link in one of the first
posts to this thread) and it's working (knock on wood). so far (over
an hour of gameplay), it is working just fine in menus (which was
the problem reported w/this leveller plugin, that your stats didn't
when your armorer, alchemy, speech, etc, skills increased
3x).
assuming it's still up (miral007?) you can download
miral's "levelling".esp from a link in one of his early posts.
following the comment madd_muggsy made in his first post to this
thread (on 7/14), tonight i went into the bal_antimunchkin script
and deleted these three lines:
Quote:
if ( MenuMode == 1 ) return endif
these are lines 43-45 of the
script (and the middle line, "return", is indented, but i can't post
an indent here). i've played, levelled up, gained attribute points
while using in-menu skills, and the fortify bug is nowhere to be
seen (knocking on more wood), and i haven't seen a difference in
fps. while this .esp may not work for the expanded project
(balancing, different calculation of hit-points, changing governing
skills, etc), so far it is working for just playing the game.
so -- d/l miral's "levelling," open it in cs, open the
script bal_antimunchkin (the long one), delete lines 43-45, save,
clean, use, play.
-------------------- ewww....how'd the
bandersnatch get all frumious?
Post
Extras: |
|
|
There is one
point I think is essential to make in regards to the final form of
this mod.
With most mods, you either like them or you don't;
you either load them or you don't. Aside from bugs, there's no real
reason to open them in the CS.
However, when you have a mod
that fiddles with the rules themselves, you are going to have a lot
of disagreement with your selections, no matter what they
are.
I feel quite safe in saying that Morrowind wouldn't be
half as popular as it is if Bethesda hadn't included the editor. The
greatest challenge for any manufacturer is to make a product that
appeals to the widest possible audience, in order to make the most
amount of money.
With a game editor, gamers can fine tune a
game to their individual preferences. Some want easy games, some
want hard. Some want more hp, some want less magic, some want bigger
opponents, and others want better graphics. With an editor, we can
make it what WE want.
The point of all this is that it's best
to make the mod as flexible as possible. The greater the ability of
the gamer to make it her/his own, the greater the appeal. I have
often heard gamers lament on these forums that they loved _______
mod, but don't use it because it includes changes they don't
want.
I'm averse to tinkering overmuch with the rules, and
prefer keeping things as simple as possible. IME, when gamers start
going crazy overhauling the game rules, they often wind up with
something unbalanced, unrealistic, and unenjoyable, when they even
finish at all. I think it's best to focus on just what the problem
is, and fixing that. Leave all other considerations for another
project, or as optional addons. Consider that at the beginning of
this thread, all you wanted was a very simple mod that did
x.
The new thread you started on abilities is very well
thought out and presented. However... ()
imo it will be impossible to come to any kind of concensus. To me,
it's like asking congress whether the speed limit should be changed
from 65 to 67. It will involve a great deal of debate over an issue
that, in the end, is not all that important.
This is how I
see the final product:
gain 1 ability point every 3 associated skill rankups
lose 1 ability point every 3 associated skill rankdowns
(jail)
+1 to three abilities at levelup, regardless of skill
usage
This is what you requested and I think it's fine just
the way it is. The fancier you try to get, the better your chance of
causing longterm imbalance. What may seem cool now, may be realized
to be unbalanced thirty or forty levels down the road. I've seen
many a gamer get heady with rule change proposals (myself included,
but don't tell anyone! )
IMHO,
the discussion of which skill should go with which ability, whether
each skill should be tied to multiple abilities, whether
skills/abilities should cap at 100 distracts from the real goal of
the mod.
Don't include multiple esp's (unless a lot of
scripting is involved, and I don't see how that can be). Just make a
mod with the core elements, and then point out areas in the readme
how gamers can change this or that to custom fit it.
Also,
the simpler it is, the less chance of mod conflict.
Lastly, I
think Madd, or whoever makes the final version, should include in
the readme where to find all the variables that the mod changes.
This is what will allow gamers to make it their own. This is crucial
for any mod that changes rules.
For example, I like the idea
of this mod, but think that gain should be much slower than every
three ranks. IMO, every five is best. Knowing right where to change
this will let me enjoy this in my way, while others can enjoy it in
theirs. If I can't find in the readme how to change it from 3 to 5,
then I likely won't use it.
As an aside, I like the ability
of having mana increase each level, as hp and fatigue do. I would
like to know how to do that, so I can include it in my game, but
don't think it should be a part of this, as this is purely a
levelling mod.
Post Extras: |
|
|
Okay,
Issue 1: the fortify skill bug Skills not
being checked when fortified. Fortifying skills causes you to not
be able to advance the stat correctly. Should be dead with the
release of .4
Issue 2: the fortify stat bug Skills being
increased while being fortified do odd things: First thing it
does is look like it's the natural unfortified skill. When
removeing the fortification looks damaged. It can be restored to
the level at which it was fortified + 1. And then you can fortify
it again.
Confirmed and I believe I know why.
The
SetSTAT function set's the natural skill and the fortified skill to
the same thing. Disregarding the fortification affects,
kinda. The ModSTAT function increases the natural skill, and the
fortified skill by the same amount. Meaning that it keeps track of
and accounts for the fortification affects.
In the Standard
version this is a not a long term issue, just change all the SetSTAT
commands to ModSTAT. Since it's running with the standard limits,
it's all good after that.
In the No Caps version, this is
gonna become alot more complicated. Mod can't breach the 100 stat
barrier, and that's why this version exists. But Set is gonna monkey
around with the fortified stats. This might require some creative
scripting to work through.
Hope this helps sorting all this
out.
-------------------- ----------------------------------------
Shhhh! The voices in my head are trying to tell me
something.
Post Extras: |
Miral007 |
Diviner |
|
|
Reged: 10/28/03 |
Posts: 2639 |
Loc: Hot as Hell Phoenix
| |
|
You all:
Me:
-------------------- If I have told you I will make
something and you haven't heard from me since, send me a PM. I'm
quite forgetful. Reality is mankind's greatest illusion.
-- (\/) ][ |R /-\ |_
Post Extras: |
GarethS |
Initiate |
|
|
Reged: 07/18/04 |
Posts: 91 |
Loc: a Dark Place in Kent
| |
|
Quote:
Issue 2: the fortify stat bug Skills being increased
while being fortified do odd things: First thing it does is
look like it's the natural unfortified skill. When removeing
the fortification looks damaged. It can be restored to the
level at which it was fortified + 1. And then you can fortify
it again.
I was just about to report
this as I spotted it when using the Ring of Mentor near the
beginning of a new game. Was using the Standard version as I am
unsure about "no caps" in a game (but then as someone else said we
all have different feelings on what a mod should and shouldn't do
). Guess this means once it is fixed I will have to reload my
previous save ... doh!
Edit: Also I am getting the sneaking
suspicion that I did not see a level increase from a skillbook. I
read two longsword books within one game hour of each other and even
though I got two longsword increase message I think I only got one
increase. I'll check this later in Jobasha's with the Dance in Fire
series ... series skillbook overload
-------------------- I'm British and an engineer,
hence sarcastic humour and cynicism are a given.
Edited by GarethS (08/01/04 06:09 AM)
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
In response to
Aeroldoth:
Well said.
-------------------- Currently working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
|
|
Mugsy,
About the Health, Magicka, and Fatigue
stats: Magicka and Fatigue aren't leveled up. You have to change
thier governing stats to change them. Magicka is just
Int. Fatigue has a number of them however.
Health however
in increased slightly when you level up. How much it increases is
shown in the formula below: AdditionalHealth =
fLevelUpHealthEndMult * Endurance. fLevelUpHealthEndMult is a
game setting that defaults to 0.10. ( Silly me, I tested leveling
to detemine it, wasting a coule hours
)
So now when you work on the autolevel sections of your
script, you'll have the info.
PS.
I Still really like this mod.
-------------------- ----------------------------------------
Shhhh! The voices in my head are trying to tell me
something.
Post Extras: |
GarethS |
Initiate |
|
|
Reged: 07/18/04 |
Posts: 91 |
Loc: a Dark Place in Kent
| |
|
Quote:
The SetSTAT function set's the natural skill and the
fortified skill to the same thing. Disregarding the fortification
affects, kinda. The ModSTAT function increases the natural
skill, and the fortified skill by the same amount. Meaning that it
keeps track of and accounts for the fortification
affects.
Ok I am just having a look
through the code (though I'm a mechincal engineer so software is the
devil I think ).
Anyway by ModSTAT and SetSTAT so you mean the section where it says
(for example) SetStrength (i.e. substitute an Attribute for STAT in
your SetSTAT)?
Such as:
Quote:
Player->SetStrength Att
Really asking so that I can
get this sorted and carry on with my character (as well as
"converting" my other characters). Also this makes Sleep or Suffer
playable I feel.
Two things left on my list really: 1) I
can't find that menu pause thing in the 0.4 Madd Leveller
script 2) Has anyone else noticed any issues with skillbooks like
I described above?
Cheers GarethS
-------------------- I'm British and an engineer,
hence sarcastic humour and cynicism are a given.
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
Quote:
Also this makes Sleep or Suffer playable I feel.
I would like to echo this and
note that both Sleep or Suffer and Falling Down now work
exceptionally well (as far as gameplay is concerned) with the
Madd_Leveler installed.
-------------------- Currently
working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
|
|
GarethS,
the menu pause is not in madd_leveler,
but in the levelling.esp posted by miral007, which was the plugin
used before. see 7/14/04 post by miral007 for the link to the
file.
i gather that once the fortify bugs in madd_leveler are
eliminated, it will be more stable or robust, and more amenable to
tweaking/customizing, as well as much, much smaller and more
elegantly coded -- but i'm just drawing that conclusion from the
opinions of the real programmer types who've been talking about and
working away at this for close to a month now!
as noted
above, miral did a quick and dirty jury-rig of someone else's old
.esp, and w/the deletion of the menu-pause i'm continuing to find
that it works just fine.
-------------------- ewww....how'd the bandersnatch get
all frumious?
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
<- for mystic researcher for confirming what I also observed.
0.4 works for skills, but not for stats, and it is because of the
setstat function for the no caps thing.
So how should we fix
this?
I have two ways:
1)
(the nicest) Remove fortification/drain, set stat, restore
fortification/drain. BUT! I can't possibly do this, given all the
different things that can give you drain/fortification and their
varying time limits. I can't find enough information obtainable
through scripting to do this properly. (Ahh, if only we had that OO
interface... )
2)
(not as nice, but it'll have to do - unless someone has a better
idea) Use modStat until the player hits 100 points, then test for
fortify/drain and tell him to get rid of it before applying setStat.
This will be transparent for everyone using the "Standard" version
(which is probably most of you). We can call it "the price you must
pay for being an uber-character", and put some backstory about how
the gods don't like characters with >100 in their stats or
something.
But,
like I said, if someone has a better idea than #2, or a way I could
get all the info to implement #1, let's hear
it.
-------------------- If you hate working for those
5x multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats and
skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
GarethS |
Initiate |
|
|
Reged: 07/18/04 |
Posts: 91 |
Loc: a Dark Place in Kent
| |
|
So does this
mean if I am using the standard version and I change setstrength to
modstrength it should correct the fortify stat
issue?
I'm only using setstrength as an example here
mind.
Cheers Gareth "whose mind is blowing due to
software" S
-------------------- I'm British and an engineer,
hence sarcastic humour and cynicism are a given.
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Quote:
So does this mean if I am using the standard version and I
change setstrength to modstrength it should correct the fortify
stat issue?
Yes, that's correct. Please
let me know ASAP if this is not the case. The SetStat and ModStat
are the only readily apparent differences between my script and
Balor's. And his seems to work for this.
-------------------- If you hate working for those 5x
multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats and
skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
New version of
Madd_Leveler here:
http://www.euro-rpg.com/plugins/uploads/ID4876-2-26-Madd+Leveler+v0.5-20040801.zip
v0.5 --
Fixed the fortify stat bug -- using option #2 as outlined in my post
above.
The one in my sig should be updated
soon.
As always, let me know about any bugs you find.
Cheers!
-------------------- If you hate working for those 5x
multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats and
skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Quote:
There is one point I think is essential to make in regards to
the final form of this mod.
With most mods, you either like
them or you don't; you either load them or you don't. Aside from
bugs, there's no real reason to open them in the
CS.
However, when you have a mod that fiddles with the
rules themselves, you are going to have a lot of disagreement with
your selections, no matter what they are. ... Lastly, I
think Madd, or whoever makes the final version, should include in
the readme where to find all the variables that the mod changes.
This is what will allow gamers to make it their own. This is
crucial for any mod that changes rules. ... As an aside, I
like the ability of having mana increase each level, as hp and
fatigue do. I would like to know how to do that, so I can include
it in my game, but don't think it should be a part of this, as
this is purely a levelling mod.
I agree totally with this, and
given the number of varying opinions, I don't think I'll be able to
make one mod that makes all the changes everyone wants.
But
what I can and will do is make an easy to alter script with good
documentation in the readme (next version?) that will allow people
with little to no scripting experience to make the changes that they
want themselves. This will include things like skill/stat capping,
auto-leveling (w/ and w/out the menu), points/skill to increase
stats, stats that increase with each skill (& amounts),
health/mana/fatigue per level as well as per stat, etc. Also, I plan
to include some "why"s for each... Like why would you want to cap
skills at 99? Etc.
-------------------- If you hate
working for those 5x multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all
your stats and skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
GarethS |
Initiate |
|
|
Reged: 07/18/04 |
Posts: 91 |
Loc: a Dark Place in Kent
| |
|
Quote:
Yes, that's correct. Please let me know ASAP if this is not
the case. The SetStat and ModStat are the only readily apparent
differences between my script and Balor's. And his seems to work
for this.
Or I could just wait the short
time until 0.5 is produced
Ooops
been playing another character. I'll give it a try now as I am about
5 minutes from getting Mentor's ring again.
-------------------- I'm British and an engineer,
hence sarcastic humour and cynicism are a given.
Post Extras: |
|
|
Quote:
<- for mystic researcher for confirming what I also observed.
0.4 works for skills, but not for stats, and it is because of the
setstat function for the no caps thing.
So how should we
fix this?
I have two ways:
1)
(the nicest) Remove fortification/drain, set stat, restore
fortification/drain. BUT! I can't possibly do this, given all the
different things that can give you drain/fortification and their
varying time limits. I can't find enough information obtainable
through scripting to do this properly. (Ahh, if only we had that
OO interface... )
2)
(not as nice, but it'll have to do - unless someone has a better
idea) Use modStat until the player hits 100 points, then test for
fortify/drain and tell him to get rid of it before applying
setStat. This will be transparent for everyone using the
"Standard" version (which is probably most of you). We can call it
"the price you must pay for being an uber-character", and put some
backstory about how the gods don't like characters with >100 in
their stats or something.
But,
like I said, if someone has a better idea than #2, or a way I
could get all the info to implement #1, let's hear it.
An interesting
dilema...
So if I follow correctly, the problem is that you
can't set the attribute to the required 'over 100' value and still
retain the correct drain/fortify bonuses.
My suggestion is
this: Don't ever set attribute to over 100, but always use modstat
for increases instead. To get around the problem of modstat not
working when your base strength value is 100, you could apply
further advances as fortifications. e.g, strength 110 might be
strength 60 + fortify strength 50. that way you'll still be able to
use modstat correctly. When it eventually reaches 100 again, replace
strength 100 and fortify strength 50 with strength 50 and fortify
strength 100. This way you'll never cap out on strength. The upper
limit, I guess, will be whatever fortify strength spell you decide
to put in the mod.
I suspect there are plenty of
fortify/drain/damage issues that could screw this idea up, but since
you can easily keep an independant record of the *correct* values of
a player's attributes you could have a script check the current
values every so many seconds and make readjustments accordingly. Or
at least, I think you could
Any
thoughts?
-------------------- LichCraft 0.95 beta - discussion thread Homepage and download link
Post Extras: |
GarethS |
Initiate |
|
|
Reged: 07/18/04 |
Posts: 91 |
Loc: a Dark Place in Kent
| |
|
Ok I have just
checked to be sure the stat bug vanishes and it has done. Willpower
increased quite happily but still showed it was "buffed" by Mentor's
Ring, take off the ring and stat goes to normal with none of the red
writing as before when the Mentor's Ring buff became part of the set
level in 0.4.
Excellent. Next mission is to try and reproduce
the error I thought I got with the skillbooks.
-------------------- I'm British and an engineer,
hence sarcastic humour and cynicism are a given.
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
Quote:
New version of Madd_Leveler here:
... The one in my sig should be updated soon.
It has been updated. And a
quick/dirty website with details is in the works... Sometime this
week... I promise. ^^
-------------------- Currently
working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
|
|
Quote:
But what I can and will do is make an easy to alter script
with good documentation in the readme (next version?) that will
allow people with little to no scripting experience to make the
changes that they want themselves. This will include things like
skill/stat capping, auto-leveling (w/ and w/out the menu),
points/skill to increase stats, stats that increase with each
skill (& amounts), health/mana/fatigue per level as well as
per stat, etc. Also, I plan to include some "why"s for each...
Like why would you want to cap skills at 99? Etc.
Absolutely. This is what I
mean. Knowing what to change, where, to get what results, is how
this mod is best presented.
In essence you make a batch of
ice cream, and we get to pick the flavor.
Post Extras: |
|
|
Madd-Mugsy: Cool my scripting skills aren't as rusty
as I thought they were.
GarethS: I can go ahead and try to
reproduce the bug in about 7 hours. (I only have access to my game
machine then.
)
VenomByte: Hmmm. Your idea might work in a very very
good way.
We could use the modstat function for say 25 stat
ups, then apply a 25 point constant ability to fortify the stat, and
mod the stat down 25. And since we don't even have to keep track
of the base stat, just our adjustments fortify/drain/damage
shouldn't become an issue.
(Of course we could just lock the
stat in at 99, and apply the fortifications from them on. I just
have no clue how having 900 fortify strength 1 point affects will
affect the game speed/fps.)
I don't think dispell undoes the
abilities that are applied for the race at character creation
(Anyone get rid of the stunted magicka effect yet?) so abilites that
fortify the stat could be safe as well. I can check into this
tonight too if it's
desired.
-------------------- ----------------------------------------
Shhhh! The voices in my head are trying to tell me
something.
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
On the books
-- I haven't seen this error myself, but I haven't had a chance to
check it since like version .1. Will check tonight or tomorrow.
Quote:
VenomByte: Hmmm. Your idea might work in a very very
good way.
We could use the modstat function for say 25
stat ups, then apply a 25 point constant ability to fortify the
stat, and mod the stat down 25. And since we don't even have
to keep track of the base stat, just our adjustments
fortify/drain/damage shouldn't become an issue.
(Of course
we could just lock the stat in at 99, and apply the fortifications
from them on. I just have no clue how having 900 fortify strength
1 point affects will affect the game speed/fps.)
I don't
think dispell undoes the abilities that are applied for the race
at character creation (Anyone get rid of the stunted magicka
effect yet?) so abilites that fortify the stat could be safe as
well. I can check into this tonight too if it's desired.
<- venombyte
<- mystic researcher
I've been pondering this idea in my
head for the last few hours since I read venom byte's post.
Researcher, you have the right idea here. The simplest way
is to lock stats at 100 and apply 1 point fortifications after that.
But can they be dispelled? Will they affect the FPS? I can start
testing the FPS thing tonight/tomorrow, but I'm not sure about
dispelling the effects.
EDIT: [deleted]
Best
bet, from what I can tell, is at 100, we modStat -99 down to 1 and
AddSpell a fortify ability 100. Then we could keep using modStat. 25
or a lower number would work too, but would probably hit the FPS
more than a larger number. Hmmm... what happens if we modStat down
to 0?
Another cool way would be if we could modify the
magnitude of spells/abilities on the fly through scripting...
EDIT: Ok... That didn't work. I added 100 via fortified
attribute, subtracted 99 from the stat, and it was fine. I added
another point via modStat and it went back to before the fortify
(-100).
Will try one point at a time....
EDIT:
That didn't work either. Apparently, abilities don't stack.
So I can't keep AddSpell-ing the same ability over and over.
Any other ideas?
-------------------- If you hate
working for those 5x multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all
your stats and skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Edited by Madd_Mugsy
(08/02/04 12:36 AM)
Post
Extras: |
|
|
On the Ability
Fortification Idea:
That's right, Multiple affects that have
the same name don't stack. And I don't know of any way to modify
spell affects on the fly.
However
as long as the abilities have different names I think they should
stack.
So my first thought was do it in binary: A fort
stat 1 ability, a fort 2 stat ability, a fort 4 stat ability, a fort
stat 8 ability........ And all of them with slightly different
names.
That's 5 abilities that will take us up to 15 over 99?
100? Something like that.
I think the scripting on this is
gonna be pretty tricky, and I don't know what would happen with the
levelup menu. But I think this should allow quite a bit of leveling
above the usual ceiling.
Still can't test for a while though,
so realize this is all speculation.
PS
to Mad_Mugsy for getting the bugs squashed so quickly.
-------------------- ----------------------------------------
Shhhh! The voices in my head are trying to tell me
something.
Post Extras: |
|
|
don't know if
this is helpful -- but the dodge mod that i use has a bunch of
different sanctuary bonusses that it categorizes as abilities. so
when your unarmored goes from 24 to 25, the script removes the old
ability (e.g., dodge/sanctuary bonus of 5 points) and applies the
new abilitiy (e.g., d/s bonus of 7 points). all the abilities have
different IDs but the same name in the game. here 'tis:
http://www.hiredgoons.net/MWFiles/Dodge1.2-WD-Enhanced_(Tribunal)_3-18-03.zip
i'm
gonna d/l and use madd_leveler 0.5 here in a sec -- glad to see
someone who had the same problem with mentor's that i did reports
all is well! oh, and hope your b.c. day was good. how sweet that
someone has made a holiday to honor that timeless comic strip.
-------------------- ewww....how'd the bandersnatch get
all frumious?
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Quote:
how sweet that someone has made a holiday to honor that
timeless comic strip.
Ha! I'm sure that's exactly what the
premier at the time had in mind!
Okay,
so there is definitely going to be a 0.6 on the horizon. Since no
one has been reporting bugs with the no caps version, i started
using it. And guess what? I found a bug
A FORTIFY bug!!!
But
it's now dead. It doesn't occur until your skills are over the max.
I'll probably release a new version tomorrow, unless enough people
want this fix right away. I'd rather do some more testing first
though.
Adding and removing abilities would probably work,
but i'm not one for adding umpteen abilities for every possible
stat/value combination. It's ugly, bug prone (due to the
repetitiveness) and bloats the script (also more bug potential
there).
It's a valid last resort, but I'd prefer to just stick with what's
in version 0.5, unless we can figure out something more "elegant".
I'll dig around a bit more...
-------------------- If you
hate working for those 5x multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap
all your stats and skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
Miral007 |
Diviner |
|
|
Reged: 10/28/03 |
Posts: 2639 |
Loc: Hot as Hell Phoenix
| |
|
When you
release the new version, start a new thread. I think this one has
been outlived already
-------------------- If I have told you I will make
something and you haven't heard from me since, send me a PM. I'm
quite forgetful. Reality is mankind's greatest illusion.
-- (\/) ][ |R /-\ |_
Post Extras: |
|
|
Yeah, I'm
aware spells don't stack which is why I suggested a number of
different spells differing in magnitude by 50 (a 50, 100, 150, 200
etc). The binary idea did cross my mind, but I thought it'd probably
require some really ugly code and quite a few spells.
-------------------- LichCraft 0.95 beta - discussion thread Homepage and download link
Post Extras: |
|
|
Yeah, finally
I can test!
GarethS, I was unable to duplicate the issue of
the skill books not increasing skills. And I have no clue why it
would do that either.
I
also verified that the Fortify Abilities could not be dispelled. The
other side of that is that they are considered "Natural" so when the
combo hits 100, no more using the mod stat function.
However
normal spell affects can be used with the mod stat to boost the stat
over 100. So we could mod the stat to 0 and then keep checking to
make sure a fort spell was active on the character. Wow getting this
bad boy stable for stats over 100 isn't easy is it.
As
for doing it similar to binary, it'll look REALLY ugly, but keep
bloat and effect count down. Doing it at all is probably gonna be
ugly period though, so I can totally understand you Madd_Mugsy when
you want to save it as a last resort.
Well MM, if you find a
more elegant solution let me know. I'd love to see a better way to
do this.
Night All.
-------------------- ----------------------------------------
Shhhh! The voices in my head are trying to tell me
something.
Post Extras: |
|
|
An alternative
to using a fortify attribute ability, is to have the script cast a
fortify attribute spell on the player with duration 999999, or
somethign like that. That way it will not count as
natural.
Check out Marc's vampire stat cap fix to see an
example of this in action.
-------------------- LichCraft 0.95 beta - discussion thread Homepage and download link
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
This is the
first thing I actually thought of, but I didn't think it was
possible to actually have a duration that couldn't expire... People
can play morrowind for a pretty long time. Plus how do you stop it
from being dispelled?
-------------------- If you hate
working for those 5x multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all
your stats and skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
Far be it form
me to approach actual scripting in this game, but perhaps another
angle might help.
Why prevent it from being dispelled? Why
not trigger the boost to recast whenever a dispell is cast? (Even if
it's ever cast twice, I do not believe the boosts stack).
Just a thought...
-------------------- Currently
working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
|
|
You can have a
duration of 99999999, which = just over three years of playing
without pausing for food, water or sleep
I
think Sederien's idea should work. Have a script check to see if the
'dispel' effect is on the player, and if so, recast.
-------------------- LichCraft 0.95 beta - discussion thread Homepage and download link
Post Extras: |
GarethS |
Initiate |
|
|
Reged: 07/18/04 |
Posts: 91 |
Loc: a Dark Place in Kent
| |
|
Well I loaded
my game when I got home and found that the point of Willpower I
gained last night had vanished (though my Willpower based skills
were still at a total of +3 levels). Not too bad a problem I first
thought as Willpower was still showing in the light yellow "buffed"
colour ... take off Mentor's ring, drops from 60 to 50 ... fine
except that the 50 was in red showing a loss of attribute ...
argh!!!
Thought it might have been the cause of Sleep or
Suffer though the ring that comes with showed only been awake three
hours ... again nope as even 12 hours sleep did not clear it
-------------------- I'm British and an engineer,
hence sarcastic humour and cynicism are a given.
Post Extras: |
|
|
I think there
is yet another problem with using several fortify stat "abilities"
to get around the 100 limit: drain attribute. If you have a stat
that is permanently over 100, you cannot resotre it if it gets
drained, I believe.
Perhaps a better solution, if a bit
clunkier, is to grant the player powers (the every 24 hrs kind) that
fortify their stat above 100.
Post Extras:
|
|
|
Was this 0.4
or 0.5?
Post Extras: |
|
|
Quote:
Perhaps a better solution, if a bit clunkier, is to grant the
player powers (the every 24 hrs kind) that fortify their stat
above 100.
ah -- then duration only needs
to be 24 hrs. right? rather than "9999....." the player can be told
that they have to spend a daily period in
meditation/contemplation/prayer/concentration to focus and call upon
their extraordinary abilities.
-------------------- ewww....how'd the bandersnatch get
all frumious?
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Gareth, you
seem to be having more than your fair share of bugs here.
TBH, I've not seen any of the book bugs - just tested on
like 100 books - or the vanishing stats bug. Here's a possible
solution:
1) Make sure you have the latest (0.5) installed.
2) Remove all fortifications and drains 3) Type in these
commands in order in the console:
StopScript, "Madd_Leveler"
Set mlRunOnce To 0 StartScript, "Madd_Leveler"
This
will completely reset the script, and should hopefully fix your
problems.
-------------------- If you hate working for
those 5x multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats
and skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
I don't
believe that a drain attribute spell targets other spells. It should
just drain the base stat, in which case it should work just fine
with drain spells. The biggest problem right now is getting the mod
to accurately keep track of that base stat.
Someone correct
me if I'm wrong of course...
(Oh, if only Morrowind was PHP
based. )
-------------------- Currently working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Ok so I've
been testing out the auto-leveling / leveless stuff and I've got
some bad news...
1) Auto-leveling w/level up menu sometimes
causes a CTD when leveling. 2) Auto-leveling w/out level up menu
(using player->setlevel) puts you at level zero permenantly.
Workarounds, anyone?
-------------------- If
you hate working for those 5x multipliers (and would maybe like to
uncap all your stats and skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Quote:
I don't believe that a drain attribute spell targets other
spells. It should just drain the base stat, in which case it
should work just fine with drain spells. The biggest problem right
now is getting the mod to accurately keep track of that base
stat.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong of
course...
(Oh, if only Morrowind was PHP based. )
I disagree
Keeping
track of the base stat is the easy part. Heck the script is doing it
right now. We'd just need to tweak that part a bit for the
fortifying spells.
-------------------- If you hate
working for those 5x multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all
your stats and skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Quote:
Quote:
Perhaps a better solution, if a bit clunkier, is to grant
the player powers (the every 24 hrs kind) that fortify their
stat above 100.
ah -- then duration only
needs to be 24 hrs. right? rather than "9999....." the player can
be told that they have to spend a daily period in
meditation/contemplation/prayer/concentration to focus and call
upon their extraordinary abilities.
This is just as hokey as the
way it is right now
This would be fine for sleep or suffer users, but I for one don't
use that mod. Heck my char is awake for so long, he should be seeing
hallucinations. I only sleep for level up and if I'm too damaged to
heal myself.
EDIT: But we could track the days and do it
without resting.... Hmmmm....
-------------------- If you
hate working for those 5x multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap
all your stats and skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Edited by Madd_Mugsy
(08/02/04 04:56 PM)
Post
Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
Quote:
Quote:
I don't believe that a drain attribute spell targets other
spells. It should just drain the base stat, in which case it
should work just fine with drain spells. The biggest problem
right now is getting the mod to accurately keep track of that
base stat.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong of course...
(Oh, if only Morrowind was PHP based. )
I disagree
Keeping track of the base stat is the easy part. Heck the
script is doing it right now. We'd just need to tweak that part a
bit for the fortifying spells.
Aye, what I trying to say.
(Proving yet again that I am not destined to become a tech writer.)
Anyway, as to the auto-leveling. Well, I was going to
suggest Sleep or Suffer.
Now, I looked at the script and was curious about one
thing... The enableLevelMenu command. Is that safe to run without
checking to see if a player is currently in another menu?
Possibly something along the lines of:
Code:
WARNING! NOT REAL CODE! DING DING DING!
if (MenuEnabled == 1)
message "Sleep to level up!"
Return
else
enableLevelMenu
endif
END FAKE CODE!
(I'm quite sure I didn't script a single word right in that
code, but it's more of a general idea thing.)
-------------------- Currently working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
I like the
999999... duration idea. It's easier to code than the 24 hr one,
because I'd need to put a day check in the latter. And recast all
the spells every day.
Regular spells stack right? Just not
abilties? (I never use much magic - can you tell?) If so, I could
just have one point fortify spells and cast them the appropriate
number of times.
BUT, how many spells can be cast in one
frame without crashing? (To restore after a dispel) Hmmm...
I
guess this goes back to needing a large number of spells. But this
is still less complicated than adding and removing ability
combinations.
-------------------- If you hate working
for those 5x multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your
stats and skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
|
|
Quote:
Ok so I've been testing out the auto-leveling / leveless stuff
and I've got some bad news...
1) Auto-leveling w/level up
menu sometimes causes a CTD when leveling. 2) Auto-leveling
w/out level up menu (using player->setlevel) puts you at level
zero permenantly.
Workarounds, anyone?
what?!!
your
the one who makes the mod! another bug?
lets see if i read
this right! ....if you only set your level in the console, you
will never level. ....if you level "regularly", like when some
stats increase and you sleep for a day and then get the level-up
screen, sometimes the game crashes!
probably some code still
conflicting with the original code of the program.
what is me
to do? still go ahead and use version .5? or
wait till
later, or even just go ahead and level up the "NORMAL" way ala
the morrowind normal-engine, and then wait till version .6 or .7
or.8 comes out and then use the console to disable/enable
it!
I still suspect the intertwinning of the bethsoft
gamescripts are *VERY* tendril-like, very "intricate" if the whole
game engine is any indication!
like:
---from what i
read, the snow in bloodmoon affects your fps, even if you only have
BM installed and never ever yet been off of vandervall!! i read
the Engine calculates, when you are in, say, Sedya, calculates the
inside of the builsings and even the water table under your
feet!!
I wish you Luck and Fortitude, Madd!
here are a
couple, or three, of "enlightenment potions" for you to take,
just as you begin to really get into de-bugging this!
freestone
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Yes, you can
run the enablelevelmenu while looking at other menus. I've done it
from console lots.
Here's a sample of one of my CTDs: I fall
out of a tree. I get hurt and my acrobatics goes up. Up pops level
menu. Crash goes game. Very weird. It only happened sometimes.
I did some more testing with the leveless system and got a
CTD with that too. Maybe I've got some other buggy mod installed?
I've got over 130 installed so far.
-------------------- If you hate working for those 5x
multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats and
skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Quote:
lets see if i read this right! ....if you only set your
level in the console, you will never level. ....if you level
"regularly", like when some stats increase and you sleep for a day
and then get the level-up screen, sometimes the game
crashes!
Not quite.
The regular
leveling where you sleep for a day or whatever works fine. This is
just when I set use the auto-leveling system that I built into the
mod. It doesn't require any resting. The player->setlevel
function doesn't seem to be affecting the level # of the character,
even after a reload, level = 0. The problem I think is that I set
iLevelupTotal= 30000 and it's not reflecting in the level
number.
I'm not 100% sure anymore that the CTDs are related
to my mod. I just had one where I just started to talk to a guard.
-------------------- If you hate working for those 5x
multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats and
skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
|
|
Quote:
here are a couple, or three, of "enlightenment
potions" for you to take, just as you begin to really get into
de-bugging this!
freestone
maybe seven of
em......
freestone
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Just noticed
an error with Month Bugfix when the game was loading. I'll try
removing that mod and see if I get any more CTDs.
-------------------- If you hate working for those 5x
multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats and
skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
Ooo... Yeah.
Don't use that one. I've had major problems with it.
There's
a better one though: Spuzzum's Year Patch v1
-------------------- Currently working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
|
|
setLevel
doesn't accept variables, if I recall correctly.
That's why
Balor's original mod did not have level-downs
The only way to
do it would be to have a series of if/then statemenets
Code:
if (level==6) player->setLevel, 6 endif if (level==7) player ->setlevel, 7 endif
And so on for about 100 levels, or however many you plan on
doing...
-------------------- LichCraft 0.95 beta - discussion thread Homepage and download link
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Quote:
setLevel doesn't accept variables, if I recall correctly.
That's why Balor's original mod did not have level-downs
The only way to do it would be to have a series of if/then
statemenets
Code:
if (level==6)
player->setLevel, 6
endif
if (level==7)
player ->setlevel, 7
endif
And so on for about 100 levels, or however many you plan
on doing...
Gaayy... So much for the
leveless system...
-------------------- If you hate
working for those 5x multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all
your stats and skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
|
|
Quote:
Just noticed an error with Month Bugfix when the game was
loading. I'll try removing that mod and see if I get any more
CTDs.
Madd!
the bugfix
eh?
There is a "supermod" called "the morrowind patch". over
1000 fixes. the readme tells how there are 11 months to morrowind,
an error on bethsoft's part! *his* fix for it comes as part of the
mod. but there is a small "bug" with this fix: that when you play
your first game, save, then quit....then another day load up that
game, an error messege comes up that says that the month is not
found. the mod maker [?] says to ignore this messege, click it
away, and it will never apper again, and the month is really
fixed.
then another person did make a mod called "month fix",
the one that you refer to.
my question is....Madd, i am using
that Morrowind Patch mod. i get to the census office and as i get my
final papers and the package and then leave, the effect appears
telling me that your levleing mod is enabled. i then quit the game.
next time i begin, that month error comes up and i click it away,
never to see it again.
so... what affect does *that* mod,
the Patch mod, have on Leveling? nothing? or the error/crash
like in "monthfix".
that morrowind patch mod is now nearly a
"Bible", it is the Only Mod to Have, if you use only one
mod!! eeeeeeveryyyone is now using it!
the maker
promishes, in a few weeks or a month or two, to Realase the Next
Version, of it, too!
lets see if i can find
it!
Unofficial Morrowind Patch v1.2.1/v1.6.2 by Thepal
Readme
i find nothing about a change in the leveling
system.
anyway.....i wonder if that Patch mod changes
Leveling in any way?!
freestone
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
I use that
unofficial patch too. I guess I just never disable that old month
bugfix mod after installing the patch mod.
The patch mod does
not have any effect whatsoever on this mod. It only looks at your
level for DB assassination attempts.
-------------------- If you hate working for those 5x
multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats and
skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
About to test
fortifying stats when over 100... Wish me luck...
-------------------- If you hate working for those 5x
multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats and
skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
|
|
Quote:
I use that unofficial patch too. I guess I just never disable
that old month bugfix mod after installing the patch
mod.
The patch mod does not have any effect whatsoever on
this mod. It only looks at your level for DB assassination
attempts.
yes Madd, maybe that has
something to do with the problem: running TWO versions of the same
mod, will cause Stuff To Happen! conflicts will occur, and all of
that!
hey....
while
waiting to see the thread "refresh" i went over to the tech section
and i found this, maybe it could show some insifght into the
leveling process, as this poor soul could never ever level
up! ............................................... >>>>>>>>>>>>
Pages:
1 Entsuropi Layman
Reged: 08/01/04
Posts: 2
BUG : Game not levelling character #2877248
- 08/01/04 10:51 PM Edit Reply Quote
I have been
using a mage character, high elf. And yet it will not level him. I
have had about 30 skill advancements, but the leveling meter remains
paused at 9/10. Running latest patches, all expansions on PC.
Post Extras: 03jgarland Curate
Reged: 03/31/04 Posts: 723 Loc: Sydney, Nova
Scotia, Canada Re: BUG : Game not levelling character [Re:
Entsuropi] #2877414 - 08/01/04 11:44 PM Edit Reply Quote
Are you using any plug-ins other than the official
ones?
-------------------- Hey, all. I'm back from away
for a cousin's wedding. Good food. Great fun. Even better
bridesmaids.
Post Extras: DinkumThinkum Diviner
Reged: 09/19/01 Posts: 4571 Loc: Luna Penal
Colony Re: BUG : Game not levelling character [Re: Entsuropi]
#2877554 - 08/02/04 12:16 AM Edit Reply Quote
Quote: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I
have been using a mage character, high elf. And yet it will not
level him. I have had about 30 skill advancements, but the leveling
meter remains paused at 9/10. Running latest patches, all expansions
on
PC.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are
the skill advancements all in major or minor
skills?
Miscellaneous skills don't count toward leveling up.
-------------------- How to avoid the most common problem
encountered by new modders: Dirty Saves: Causes and Cures
Post Extras: Entsuropi Layman
Reged:
08/01/04 Posts: 2
Re: BUG : Game not levelling character
[Re: DinkumThinkum] #2878984 - 08/02/04 12:30 PM Edit Reply
Quote
Ah, that was it. Heh. I kept on raising misc
skills :P
Thanks for the help.
===================================
he
apparently did not use any of the major/minor skills at all! you
must, in the Engine, i guess, have to level up using the major/minor
skills to get the 2x mult. the misc skills only are there to up
the "x" to 3x...4x...5x.
probably you know this well, but i
pasted the thread here anyways!
freestone
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Misc skills
don't count? I'll have to double check this.
I have
acrobatics and athletics as misc skills, and I'm running and jumping
around like a madman all the time to increase them, and I keep
leveling up.
-------------------- If you hate working for
those 5x multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats
and skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
snag... cast
function doesn't work? I can't seem to cast ANY spell from script or
console. Anyone know why this could be?
-------------------- If you hate working for those 5x
multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats and
skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
|
|
misc skills
don't advance your level towards levelup, but they do coutn towards
the multiplier.
As far as I know, it's always been that way.
Hence the crazy levelling of misc skills med/hev armor before
levelling up
-------------------- LichCraft 0.95 beta - discussion thread Homepage and download link
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Quote:
misc skills don't advance your level towards levelup, but they
do coutn towards the multiplier
Yeah, it's my auto-level
script that's catching them.
-------------------- If you
hate working for those 5x multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap
all your stats and skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
Question: If
implimented, would you use the autoleveling scripts mentioned above,
or would you prefer to level up when you choose with the only
limitation being that you need to rest (no change to the original
game)?
To
clarify the above:
The autoleveling is
separate from the mod's main function to add attributes when skills
go up. This is only to see whether or not autoleveling would be
useful to you in addition to the changes already made in the
Madd_Leveler.
The pros of autoleveling: Level directly after
gaining skills. No more searching for a place to rest.
Cons:
No control over when you level (though you may edit how fast you
level), which means you may level in the middle of a
fight/conversation, etc. Additional scripts will be
added.
Thanks for your vote!
-------------------- Currently working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
The above poll
is sort of an informal way to gauge if we should be concentrating on
the caps over autoleveling. I'm sure Madd_Mugsy will probably create
both functions in time (if only for the challenge ^^), but I haven't
yet heard large amounts of support for the feature itself. At the
very least, I'd like to know what the general concensus is out
there...
-------------------- Currently working on:
The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Okay I can't
get spells to stack and play nice together.
I'm going to use
abilities, as was discussed earlier. I've written and tested an
algorithm that will implement MysticResearcher's idea (
for you MR) to use binary spells (1,2,4,8...). Now I just have to
write a script to add and remove them and add a whole bunch of
spells (I think up to 2048 -- with a max stat of 4095 -- will do
)
-------------------- If you hate working for those 5x
multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats and
skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Sederien,
This poll is a great idea. I don't want
to kill myself testing some feature no one's ever going to use
-------------------- If you hate working for those 5x
multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats and
skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
|
|
I think that
points can be made for either system of levelling.
I worry
though about levelling up in a combat, as you suggest. I fear a CTD
or other problem. I also wonder if having these scripts running
would affect fps.
As a minor point, going to bed gives you
the option of autosaving. Since I always forget to save until it's
too late, the autosave has saved me a lot. So I vote for current
system.
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
Get 0.6 Here:
http://www.elderscrolls.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=2881602&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=&vc=
(New thread)
The link in my sig should change soon
As always, let me know of any bugs.
Cheers!
-------------------- If you hate working for those 5x
multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats and
skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
GarethS |
Initiate |
|
|
Reged: 07/18/04 |
Posts: 91 |
Loc: a Dark Place in Kent
| |
|
Quote:
1) Make sure you have the latest (0.5) installed. 2)
Remove all fortifications and drains 3) Type in these commands
in order in the console:
StopScript, "Madd_Leveler"
Set mlRunOnce To 0 StartScript, "Madd_Leveler"
This will completely reset the script, and should
hopefully fix your problems.
The books thing I wasn't sure
about, may have just been me after all but if I didn't report
someone else can't check it.
As for the stat loss, I am
using 0.5 Standard. Followed through all you commands and my
Willpower is still showing in red and the 1 point gain from
previously is not showing. This was a "new" character with 0.5, new
is in quotes as the character has exactly the same set-up as the
previous one for comparison.
I have double checked the list
of "buffs" that appears above your magic menu and this is not
showing any enforced decreases.
Any other suggestions?
Edit: Ok I can tell I posted
this before I went to work, i.e. while I was still waking up as I
left out the error messages I got when I restarted the script ...
I'll post them up when I get home again.
-------------------- I'm British and an engineer,
hence sarcastic humour and cynicism are a given.
Edited by GarethS (08/03/04 03:11 AM)
Post Extras: |
gfross |
Novice |
|
|
Reged: 07/29/04 |
Posts: 30 |
| |
|
Quote:
Question: If implimented, would you use the autoleveling
scripts mentioned above, or would you prefer to level up when you
choose with the only limitation being that you need to rest (no
change to the original game)?
I would prefer the option of
NOT being forced to level up at any time. As it is, I have about
seven level-ups accumulated from having trained some of my maj/min
skills up to 50 or so. I want, however, to remain at a lower level
(am now at level 14) for a while. As a result, I am forced NOT to
rest. Instead, I choose "Wait" to pass the night quickly. Of course,
in order to choose Wait, I have to be indoors. That means that if I
don't want to travel outdoors after sunset (which is usually the
case) I have to Mark the place I am outdoors and then use Almsivi or
Imperial Cult spells to teleport to the nearest temple, etc. and
then after waiting until dawn, Recall to the outdoor spot.
I
see no roleplaying reason for having to do that (instead of resting,
use Mark, Wait, and Recall in that fashion); it is merely a game
mechanic that forces me to do so.
As it is, the game offers
only an "OK" button to press when you rest and are ready to level
up. What I would like to see added to the game is something like the
following:
Want to level up? Yes No
If Yes is
chosen, then the current Level Up screen appears. If No is
chosen, then the game continues as before.
My theory about
game designing is that the more options the designers offer the
players for actions to take, the more enjoyable the game is. Life is
about the freedom to choose. The ability to make choices is one of
our greatest characteristics. I don't like other people making
choices for me. So any mod that increases our freedom to choose what
we want to do in MW is VERY WELCOME as far as I'm concerned.
Post Extras: |
Sederien |
Acolyte |
|
|
Reged: 07/16/04 |
Posts: 118 |
| |
|
Madd_Mugsy,
link updated.
gfross, no problem.
The autoleveling
system described is by default off in the mod. In fact, you have to
make a minor adjustment to the scripts to turn it on. (So you have
the choice of both when you get the mod!) The question is whether or
not to fix the bugs that are occuring when it is turned on over
working on other parts of the script. Thanks for the vote! And I
like the suggestion with the Yes, No question.
-------------------- Currently working on: The Less Generic NPC Series website. The Madd Leveler website.
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
IMPORTANT NOTE
that I forgot to include in the readme:
If you are upgrading
from a previous version of the Madd_Leveler and you are using the
"No Caps" esp, then you must run the following console command to
see increases above 100 in your stats:
StartScript
Madd_Leveler_Reset
That is all....
Sorry
about that. I was really rushed to release this thing as real life
was getting in the way
PS From now on, all my updates will
be in the new thread.
-------------------- If you hate
working for those 5x multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all
your stats and skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |
GarethS |
Initiate |
|
|
Reged: 07/18/04 |
Posts: 91 |
Loc: a Dark Place in Kent
| |
|
Ok I'm back
home and these were the errors I got when doing the startscript
... "Script Error: EXPRESSION in Madd_Leveler Continue Running
Exe?" Hit "Yes" and I then got "Left Eval Continue Running
Exe?" Hit "Yes" and console can be closed.
Will try the
stop/startscript process with 0.6 and if that doesn't work start a
new character
-------------------- I'm British and an engineer,
hence sarcastic humour and cynicism are a given.
Post Extras: |
Madd_Mugsy |
Adept |
|
|
Reged: 07/14/04 |
Posts: 220 |
Loc: Waiting for my XPS :D
| |
|
That's very
strange. I've never seen that error
It looks like something got corrupted.
Try this:
1)
Type "StopScript Madd_Leveler" in console 2) Remove all drains /
fortifications 3) Save 4) Remove Madd_Leveler 5) Clean your
save game 6) Add Madd_Leveler 7) Load save game 8) Type
"StartScript Madd_Leveler_Reset" in console
Anyone else
getting this error?
-------------------- If you hate working for those 5x
multipliers (and would maybe like to uncap all your stats and
skills), check out the Madd
Leveler
Post Extras: |